This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#174290
Dukat wrote:About your questions:
1.) Ratio unique to universal:
I will deal with that question in detail in the next article.
2.) Keevan:
I always stock the appropriate number of Keevans needed in the deck. For several reasons. Keevan has Diplomacy and Anthropology. Two skills that quite rare. So when he gets killed, I just have the next one in hand.
In addition to that: putting several copies in the deck has advantages. It means that you have a card that is needed only once in play and can be discarded.
More on that later.

I have never used I'm a Doctor, Not a Bricklayer for long. I tried in the beginning, but didn't continue to use it.
First: it needs MEDICAL and OFFICER. MEDICAL is a problem among the Jem'Hadar (you will see later why I don't speak about the Founders or Vorta). Second, it is an Interrupt that can be nullified.
Considering the importance Keevan represents, those two things can slow down progress in such a deck ENORMOUSLY.

One big problem about Dominion deck is that they strongly depend on certain personnel (Deyos, Keevan, Founder Leader and some others).
That means you have to GUARANTEE that those personnel cards are in play.
Depending on certain cards that can be nullified seemed no option for me over the years.
With two proper seed cards you could get him out second turn. Halkan Council to get I.S.S. Constitution and Quark's Isolinear Rods to get Bariel. Download 45th with Bariel and replace with starship enterprise, then download McCoy and then download the bricklayer. Use the bricklayer to download to the location of Dr. Farek and Azet'izan keevan.
User avatar
 
By Dukat (Andreas Rheinländer)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
1E German National Runner-Up 2024
#174300
A possible solution.

A problem indeed is to get the Starship Enterprise into the Gamma quadrant. When using Bajoran Wormhole: Mirror and the normal one, you need TWO turns.
When using Wormhole Interrupt, you have to stock a lot of them in your deck which destroys the deck flow.

However, I wouldn't do it that way: it costs two additional seed cards and one additonal card play (Bareil) and - as stated - you have a problem to get him to your other guys.
In addition to that: any player who knows Keevan will try to stop the ship that carries him.

Let me explain my way of thinking in Dominion decks: due to the difficulties at hand, I always prefer to use card combinations that GUARANTEE me to have this and that card there or there at a given time.

I always expect the worst: Borg, battle and armada decks and so on.
Against such decks, depending on a ship that has to travel for two full turns seems to dangerous to me.

However, my experiences are my experiences and I would be pleased to see other Dominion decks around (that win tournaments).
 
By Dunnagh (Andreas Micheel)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Contender
#174301
@Dukat: I think you misunderstood him. He wants to seed AMS to download Dr. Farek (Medical) and some other guy (there is no non aligned Officer Mission Specialist) to [1E-GQ] , then do the download thingy somewhere, download Azet'izan via ASP to the location of Dr. Farek and THEN use I´m a doctor not a bricklayer to dl Keevan directly to the [1E-GQ] where Dr. Farek and Azet´izan wait.

Problem is: 2 Seed cards and some cards you wont be able to use for the rest of the game (Enterprise + McCoy; Halkan Council; Bareil). Plus, you would need a Holodeck Door for the holographic '45 Dom Perignon.
User avatar
 
By Iron Mike
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E Australian National Runner-Up 2015
2E Australian National Runner-Up 2015
#174302
Great article!

Is there any recommended way to get out 2E Keevan?
User avatar
 
By Dukat (Andreas Rheinländer)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
1E German National Runner-Up 2024
#174303
Iron Mike wrote:Great article!

Is there any recommended way to get out 2E Keevan?
Thanks!

Some ways have been mentioned, but I simply prefer to put enough copies of him in a deck.

You will hear more about Keevan and his impact on certain (!) [not all]Dominion decks.
User avatar
Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#174304
Dunnagh wrote:@Dukat: I think you misunderstood him. He wants to seed AMS to download Dr. Farek (Medical) and some other guy (there is no non aligned Officer Mission Specialist) to [1E-GQ] , then do the download thingy somewhere, download Azet'izan via ASP to the location of Dr. Farek and THEN use I´m a doctor not a bricklayer to dl Keevan directly to the [1E-GQ] where Dr. Farek and Azet´izan wait.

Problem is: 2 Seed cards and some cards you wont be able to use for the rest of the game (Enterprise + McCoy; Halkan Council; Bareil). Plus, you would need a Holodeck Door for the holographic '45 Dom Perignon.
Also a useless mission and now with G4 two turns with no ASP. I think just stocking multiples of him would be a better approach.
User avatar
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#174323
maverick2909 wrote:
Dukat wrote:About your questions:
1.) Ratio unique to universal:
I will deal with that question in detail in the next article.
2.) Keevan:
I always stock the appropriate number of Keevans needed in the deck. For several reasons. Keevan has Diplomacy and Anthropology. Two skills that quite rare. So when he gets killed, I just have the next one in hand.
In addition to that: putting several copies in the deck has advantages. It means that you have a card that is needed only once in play and can be discarded.
More on that later.

I have never used I'm a Doctor, Not a Bricklayer for long. I tried in the beginning, but didn't continue to use it.
First: it needs MEDICAL and OFFICER. MEDICAL is a problem among the Jem'Hadar (you will see later why I don't speak about the Founders or Vorta). Second, it is an Interrupt that can be nullified.
Considering the importance Keevan represents, those two things can slow down progress in such a deck ENORMOUSLY.

One big problem about Dominion deck is that they strongly depend on certain personnel (Deyos, Keevan, Founder Leader and some others).
That means you have to GUARANTEE that those personnel cards are in play.
Depending on certain cards that can be nullified seemed no option for me over the years.
With two proper seed cards you could get him out second turn. Halkan Council to get I.S.S. Constitution and Quark's Isolinear Rods to get Bariel. Download 45th with Bariel and replace with starship enterprise, then download McCoy and then download the bricklayer. Use the bricklayer to download to the location of Dr. Farek and Azet'izan keevan.
To get Bariel to the ISS Constitution takes a seeded TMW (or a treaty between Federation and Bajoran). The other problem is when Bariel [DL] the Dom, a holodeck door (or a ship with a holodeck) is needed, otherwise it is deactivated. W/o a ship with a holodeck or a holodeck door, you can not turn the Constitution into the ISS Enterprise.
User avatar
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#174325
Dukat wrote:A possible solution.

A problem indeed is to get the Starship Enterprise into the Gamma quadrant. When using Bajoran Wormhole: Mirror and the normal one, you need TWO turns.
When using Wormhole Interrupt, you have to stock a lot of them in your deck which destroys the deck flow.

However, I wouldn't do it that way: it costs two additional seed cards and one additonal card play (Bareil) and - as stated - you have a problem to get him to your other guys.
In addition to that: any player who knows Keevan will try to stop the ship that carries him.

Let me explain my way of thinking in Dominion decks: due to the difficulties at hand, I always prefer to use card combinations that GUARANTEE me to have this and that card there or there at a given time.

I always expect the worst: Borg, battle and armada decks and so on.
Against such decks, depending on a ship that has to travel for two full turns seems to dangerous to me.

However, my experiences are my experiences and I would be pleased to see other Dominion decks around (that win tournaments).
The issue is that there are few ways to "guarantee" to have a given card. You can greatly increase a card's likelihood, but to "guarantee" getting it, you would need to use certain methods that do not include stocking multiple copies of said card in any deck.
User avatar
 
By commdecker (Matthew Zinno)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Arbiter
Community Contributor
#174327
maverick2909 wrote: With two proper seed cards you could get him out second turn. Halkan Council to get I.S.S. Constitution and Quark's Isolinear Rods to get Bariel. Download 45th with Bariel and replace with starship enterprise, then download McCoy and then download the bricklayer. Use the bricklayer to download to the location of Dr. Farek and Azet'izan keevan.
If you want McCoy, it's easier to use Halkan Council V CS McCoy and Transporter Mixup to Dr. McCoy. But the real problem with this strategy is that McCoy [DL] Bricklayer to his own location, not to somewhere else where you have Farek and an officer.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#174360
commdecker wrote:
maverick2909 wrote: With two proper seed cards you could get him out second turn. Halkan Council to get I.S.S. Constitution and Quark's Isolinear Rods to get Bariel. Download 45th with Bariel and replace with starship enterprise, then download McCoy and then download the bricklayer. Use the bricklayer to download to the location of Dr. Farek and Azet'izan keevan.
If you want McCoy, it's easier to use Halkan Council V CS McCoy and Transporter Mixup to Dr. McCoy. But the real problem with this strategy is that McCoy [DL] Bricklayer to his own location, not to somewhere else where you have Farek and an officer.
I'm pretty sure this isn't how its worked. If you use Dr. McCoy to download the card, the card then comes on the table and you play it out as the card says. Which the cards simply reads "Once per game, downloads a geology personnel to your MEDICAL and OFFICER." Since the card doesn't specify location, and if I remember correctly Interrupts just go on table and then are discarded, the Interrupt would work at any location where you would have both the MEDICAL and the OFFICER.

I will definitely have to try this out and see how well it works.
 
By Worf Son of Mogh (Kenneth Tufts)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
The Traveler
1E North American Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E North American Continental Runner-Up 2023
1E Canadian National Runner-Up 2023
2E Canadian National Runner-Up 2023
#174362
maverick2909 wrote:
commdecker wrote:
maverick2909 wrote: With two proper seed cards you could get him out second turn. Halkan Council to get I.S.S. Constitution and Quark's Isolinear Rods to get Bariel. Download 45th with Bariel and replace with starship enterprise, then download McCoy and then download the bricklayer. Use the bricklayer to download to the location of Dr. Farek and Azet'izan keevan.
If you want McCoy, it's easier to use Halkan Council V CS McCoy and Transporter Mixup to Dr. McCoy. But the real problem with this strategy is that McCoy [DL] Bricklayer to his own location, not to somewhere else where you have Farek and an officer.
I'm pretty sure this isn't how its worked. If you use Dr. McCoy to download the card, the card then comes on the table and you play it out as the card says. Which the cards simply reads "Once per game, downloads a geology personnel to your MEDICAL and OFFICER." Since the card doesn't specify location, and if I remember correctly Interrupts just go on table and then are discarded, the Interrupt would work at any location where you would have both the MEDICAL and the OFFICER.

I will definitely have to try this out and see how well it works.
check the glossary under [DL] it talks about it needing to be to the location IE for jamaharon to relocate males the chick that [DL] it has to be at the males location. this would be the same situation i believe
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#174370
Worf Son of Mogh wrote: check the glossary under [DL] it talks about it needing to be to the location IE for jamaharon to relocate males the chick that [DL] it has to be at the males location. this would be the same situation i believe
The glossary reads "If the
card is played at (or to affect something at)
one particular spaceline or timeline location,
the special download icon must be at that
location."

The card in question is not specifically affecting one location or targeting one location, rather it just just targets any MEDICAL and OFFICER pair and allows you to once per game download someone there.
User avatar
Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#174390
maverick2909 wrote:
Worf Son of Mogh wrote: check the glossary under [DL] it talks about it needing to be to the location IE for jamaharon to relocate males the chick that [DL] it has to be at the males location. this would be the same situation i believe
The glossary reads "If the
card is played at (or to affect something at)
one particular spaceline or timeline location,
the special download icon must be at that
location."

The card in question is not specifically affecting one location or targeting one location, rather it just just targets any MEDICAL and OFFICER pair and allows you to once per game download someone there.
So it's targeting the location of a MEDICAL and OFFICER.
 
By Worf Son of Mogh (Kenneth Tufts)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
The Traveler
1E North American Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E North American Continental Runner-Up 2023
1E Canadian National Runner-Up 2023
2E Canadian National Runner-Up 2023
#174409
maverick2909 wrote:
Worf Son of Mogh wrote: check the glossary under [DL] it talks about it needing to be to the location IE for jamaharon to relocate males the chick that [DL] it has to be at the males location. this would be the same situation i believe
The glossary reads "If the
card is played at (or to affect something at)
one particular spaceline or timeline location,
the special download icon must be at that
location."

The card in question is not specifically affecting one location or targeting one location, rather it just just targets any MEDICAL and OFFICER pair and allows you to once per game download someone there.
glossary wrote: downloading – special download – A
card with a special download icon _ allows
you to suspend any play phase action at
any time (even during your opponent’s
turn) while you download the specified
target card and immediately play it. If the
card is played at (or to affect something at)
one particular spaceline or timeline location,
the special download icon must be at that
location. (If it is not possible to play the
card according to these rules, then the
target card may not be downloaded.) For
example, Arandis may download Jamaharon
at any time to nullify a Horga’hn (because
that artifact is not specific to any location),
but may download it to relocate a male to
Risa only if she is at his location. See
suspends play.
NOTE the jamaharon part about relocating a male that would seam to apply to IDNABL as it targets medical and officer.
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