This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#444617
Slayer07 wrote:I'm curious; with the last two boutique products having a dual personnel card are there plans for other ones? Maybe something along the lines of Enhanced Premiere's dual personnel but for DS9 and Voyager?
There are no specific plans like this. But the Department of 1E and the design team has gotten a little more willing to make dual personnel - for a long time, we had a policy against it. If there is interest in something like Enhanced DS9 or Enhanced Voyager, that is something we could look into.

-crp
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#444650
ANNOUNCING: Project Babylon
STATUS: EXPLORATORY DESIGN
(Project Babylon is an exploratory design project looking at the problems with Nors, and potention solutions to those problems.)

Nors are one of the most complicated pieces of the 1E puzzle, and while they have passionate fans, they are one of the most common sources of complaints about the game. There has been a lot of discussion, both internally to the department and publicly, about Nors, going back to the original design of the DS9 block. We've decided to put a team together that can experiment with potential rules changes, errata, or new cards in a controlled fashion that will let us get some good, solid data on the problems with Nors and the pros and cons of potential solutions.

Once this project is complete, it will give us a much better idea of how to proceed. This will, in turn, let us look at projects like a revision of the DS9 block (much like Coming of Age did for the TNG block) and new DS9-themed expansions. I'm excited for this project to get off the ground.
This is the one that is making me nervous. I agree Nors are completely insane but then again it makes TREK SENSE. I think this is going to be more polarizing than the 2EBC decision.

DS9 is my favorite series, has always been my favorite block in STCCG, and I sincerely hope that the revision of the DS9 block will be awesome and give them the power bump they need - but extremely nervous about looking at Nors.
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First Edition Art Manager
By jjh (Johnny Holeva)
 - First Edition Art Manager
 -  
#444651
What if…

There was a way to keep Nors the way they are now (you be the judge if that's good or bad).

AND

a new way to play Nors that simplifies the whole mechanic for players (new and old) that want a dare-I-say "streamlined" DS9 game experience. An Incident or two could make all the difference.

?
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#444652
jjh wrote:What if…

There was a way to keep Nors the way they are now (you be the judge if that's good or bad).

AND

a new way to play Nors that simplifies the whole mechanic for players (new and old) that want a dare-I-say "streamlined" DS9 game experience. An Incident or two could make all the difference.

?

I would be down for that. I also always said, if we focused on the Dominion War for a DS9 block of sets you could always make some brand new awesome stations and locations that would go hand in hand with DS9 cards and allow for new decks. Especially when DS9 is in desperate need of a boost to keep up with other deck designs.

You have a slew of inspiration to take from. Starbase 375, Ty'Gokor, Monac Shipyards, Utopia Planitia, Outpost 61 & Outpost 47, Jerrado (Call it an energy transfer station), Jupiter Station, Antares Fleet Yards, Cardassia Prime Orbital Three Assembly Facility, Elumsbur Detention Center, Gallitep Labour Camp, Navigation Control Post 24, Proxima Maintenance Yards, Sanctuary District A, (give DS9 its first time location!), and many more examples that are either directly from the show OR from the technical manuals/additional info provided about the show.

I'll still be nervous. If what you said had been added into it I wouldn't be nervous, but because of how its described I'm going to be nervous.
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By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E World Runner-Up 2023
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
1E British National Second Runner-Up 2023
#444658
MidnightLich wrote:Project G'Kar
STATUS: DESIGN PHASE
(Project G'Kar is the second expansion of the TOS block, focusing on the Romulans.)

...The team has been meeting regularly to discuss the file and design cards, and there is some really cool stuff planned. I'll need to be professionally neutral about it, and zone-in my expectations, but Project G'Kar is looking like a lot of fun.
Strap yourselves in for a treat folks. Can't wait for this to go to the testers :)
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#444665
Reasons not to be nervous about what Project Babylon will do:

* It's an Exploratory Design project. Ever seen an Exploratory Design project make it all the way to release? You have not. These are moonshots, and the CC designates them exploratory from the get-go because it recognizes the difficulty of getting them to press.

* The specific mandate of Babylon is to gather data -- not to act on it. The final deliverable, we are told, is expected to be a report addressed to the 1E department, not a card file.

* Babylon will be testing all kinds of things. Jjh's idea will definitely be on the list. So will, I expect, ALL of the ideas raised in recent public threads, from minor rules changes to some of Proconsul Neral's radical suggestions. They will be tried out and Babylon will find out whether they work and are fun, with an open mind all the way.

* If Babylon says, "We would like these rules changes and these errata," well, now Babylon has to have a word with Rules and Errata and convince them. Inter-departmental coordinated efforts require wide buy-in and tons of effort.

* Design is *intensely* conservative, and other departments even moreso. Decipher introduced a new card type, on average, about once a year, and broke templates routinely. The CC has introduced a new card type, on average, never, and even minor template variations are met with massive and sustained internal backlash. (One of several examples: at one point in Delenn, we wanted to mark a certain group of Doorways as "special", so we put lore on them, Q-card-style. Response from the rest of Design was intensely negative; it never reached testers.) The CC is not so conservative about power level, since it still wants to make good cards, but, when it comes to fresh or remixed mechanics or templates, it is demonstrably easier to convince a synod of Catholic bishops to change Church doctrine than it is to convince 1E staff to change a precedent. This is, in many ways, a strength, since Decipher was far too quick to innovate and break things, and it killed the game. The CC's caution is why the game is in the best shape ever, despite zero money and a shrinking player base. But it also protects frustrating and game-sapping things like the 1998 implementation of Nors.

In short, I personally wouldn't worry that Babylon will go too far in addressing the Nor Problem. I would worry more about the possibility that, in the face of these obstacles, Babylon will do nothing at all about the Nor Problem. But I also have confidence that the team recognizes these challenges going in, and will do its darndest to produce a really killer report. Where it goes from there, we will see.

That's probably the last I'll say about Babylon for the foreseeable future, because I dont want to step on toes once work on the project gets going.
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By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E World Runner-Up 2023
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
1E British National Second Runner-Up 2023
#444669
I'm not a big user of Nors, or Bajorans. I know it's weird coming from a Borg player, but they're a tad complex and I can't be bothered working them out :D

I don't mind going up against them and I know the intricacies of them. I love seeing how my opponents use them to whip my ass, they just aren't for me.

So good luck to the team. Hopefully they can entice me into using them in the future :)
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#444696
DarkSabre wrote:I'll still be nervous. If what you said had been added into it I wouldn't be nervous, but because of how its described I'm going to be nervous.
I apologize for causing you to be nervous. The intention of Project Babylon is to experiment and generate data. We can theory-craft in discussions all day about making changes to Nors, but we won't really know the impact of removing the walking rule until we remove it and try it out. Babylon is going to be about establishing a baseline, then measuring how changes impact that baseline.

Nors have dedicated and passionate fans, and there would be riots in the streets if we tried to wholesale change or remove them. Babylon's goal is to find out which changes provide the best ratio of complexity to fun to design intent, so that Design, Rules, and Errata can then make an informed decision.

I hope this helps clarify.

-crp
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#444701
MidnightLich wrote:
DarkSabre wrote:I'll still be nervous. If what you said had been added into it I wouldn't be nervous, but because of how its described I'm going to be nervous.
I apologize for causing you to be nervous. The intention of Project Babylon is to experiment and generate data. We can theory-craft in discussions all day about making changes to Nors, but we won't really know the impact of removing the walking rule until we remove it and try it out. Babylon is going to be about establishing a baseline, then measuring how changes impact that baseline.

Nors have dedicated and passionate fans, and there would be riots in the streets if we tried to wholesale change or remove them. Babylon's goal is to find out which changes provide the best ratio of complexity to fun to design intent, so that Design, Rules, and Errata can then make an informed decision.

I hope this helps clarify.

-crp
This does. Thanks


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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#444719
KazonPADD wrote:4/5 Babylon Projects have not been a success. ;-)
<adjusts nerd glasses>

I think you're not giving credit to the station that helped Valen win the last great war...
 
By HoodieDM
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#444733
I hope Nors get redesigned. Really its just "Sites" that need to be redsigned. And hopefully just reset to be more useful at all facility types, ships, and just allow all facilities to allow reporting...

~D
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#444750
We Need You Here was meant to streamline Nors by eliminating the draw no cards penalty.

While "walking" is still an absolutely absurd restriction, I wonder what other issues are out there that make people think Nors still need to be reworked/redone?
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#444754
Takket wrote:We Need You Here was meant to streamline Nors by eliminating the draw no cards penalty.

While "walking" is still an absolutely absurd restriction, I wonder what other issues are out there that make people think Nors still need to be reworked/redone?
It’s a great card but the problem is that DS9 decks are too seed heavy to compete with other deck types. So I have to seed yet another card to make Nors work better?


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