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By T-Ricks (Rick Kinney)
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Professional
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2021
#379197
If I encounter Male's Love Interest (or any similar card with a specific target) while attempting a mission with an all female away team, or no valid target, does the dilemma go away or is relocating a male personnel a requirement to get past the dilemma?
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First Edition Creative Manager
By KazonPADD (Paddy Tye)
 - First Edition Creative Manager
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Specialist
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2019
1E American National Runner-Up 2020
1E British National Runner-Up 2021
#379199
T-Ricks wrote:If I encounter Male's Love Interest (or any similar card with a specific target) while attempting a mission with an all female away team, or no valid target, does the dilemma go away or is relocating a male personnel a requirement to get past the dilemma?
I tend to use the example of Zaldan for this rule. If there are no Diplomacy people present to be targeted, the dilemma whiffs and it doesn't matter if you can fulfill the "unless" or not.

The below quotes from the Dilemma Resolution Guide should clear it up:

[P] ZALDAN
Unless 2 Treachery OR a disruptor OR Wesley Crusher
OR Exobiology present, kills two Away Team members
who have Diplomacy (random selection).


If no personnel with Diplomacy in AT, discard dilemma and continue
to next. Otherwise: If AT meets conditions (2 Treachery OR a
disruptor OR Wesley Crusher OR Exobiology), discard dilemma and
continue to next. If not, randomly select two AT members with
Diplomacy to be killed; AT is “stopped”; replace dilemma under
mission to be encountered again.

[P] MALE’S LOVE INTEREST
Male Away Team member (random selection) runs off
with lover to furthest planet. Discard dilemma.


Randomly select one male AT member (if any) and relocate to
farthest planet on this spaceline (count cards; count span if tie).
Male is not “stopped”. Rest of AT is not “stopped” and must
continue to next dilemma. Discard dilemma. (Gender-related; Borg
player discards immediately.)

TL;DR - It's not a requirement. No Males = No relocation.
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By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Counterpart
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2019
1E British National Champion 2021
1E Austrian National Runner-Up 2020
#379200
The Dilemma would be discarded right away.

Another example of this is Zaldan. It directly targets Personnel with Diplomacy to be killed. If there's no Diplomacy present, then the Dilemma is discarded once encountered

EDIT: Paddy got there before me
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Writing Team Manager
By OKCoyote (Daniel Matteson)
 - Writing Team Manager
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1E World Quarter-Finalist 2021
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2021
Specialist
1E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2021
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2021
#379204
T-Ricks wrote:Is there a "do as much as you can" rule in 1E? When facing Zaldan, if you only have one Diplomacy, does that one die if you fail to meet the requirements?
According to the dilemma resolution guide for Zaldan, the one Diplomacy does die.
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 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
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#379206
The rule of thumb for "am I stopped" is to look for the phrases "To get past" or "unless". Those are conditions, and if you fail them you're stopped. Stuff that just points at folks to do something to them aren't conditions, and you're off the hook if you don't have them.

Hippocratic Oath is an example of "guy bails on you" dilemmas that *do* stop you if you don't have it.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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1E World Champion 2021
Architect
Community Contributor
#379219
At the risk of being That Guy Who Quotes Himself, here's how my rulebook (the full version, with the sidebars) explains this tricky piece of dilemma resolution rules in general:
Clarification: Triggered & Targeted Effects

Some effects are subject to triggers. If the trigger condition is not met, then the effect is nullified. For example, Maman Picard has the automatic effect of sending your ship to the end of the spaceline, but the trigger for this effect is "If this is a Federation ship...". If the attempting ship is not [Fed] , this effect is nullified. Since there are no remaining effects on the dilemma, it is overcome.

Similarly, if an effect targets cards with a specific feature, and there are no cards present that have that feature, the effect cannot be "triggered" and is nullified instead. For example, if you encounter Empathic Echo and there is no one present with Empathy, it is overcome; if you encounter Female Love Interest and there are no females in your Away Team, it is overcome.

Likewise, if an effect requires you to choose a target, and there is no valid target in play, the effect cannot be triggered and is nullified instead. For example, if you encounter Conundrum and your opponent has no ships in play, it is overcome; and if you encounter Hippocratic Oath but there are no planets on the spaceline, it is overcome.

If multiple targets with different specific features are specified (for example, Dejaren targets one personnel and one non- [Bor] personnel), and only some are present, target those that are present.

Note that dilemma requirements are not "targeting" the required skills and attributes. You cannot ignore a dilemma's requirements. For example, If you encounter Ferengi Ingenuity and you cannot meet the requirement of stopping a team member who has Computer Skill (because you have no Computer Skill present), then you fail the mission attempt, all your personnel are stopped, and the dilemma is reseeded under the mission to be encountered again.

Similarly, a specified number of personnel is not a “specific feature;” if a card like Armus: Roulette specifies that four target personnel are to be selected, but only two personnel are present, it selects those two.

Some triggers have alternative effects. For example, Cybernetic Homing Device has an automatic effect ("opponent may move ship up to printed range") with the trigger ("If android or non- Borg aboard"). If the trigger condition is not met, that effect is nullified, but is replaced with a different effect (cannot get past without CUNNING > 36).
The Glossary also discusses this, under dilemma resolution, but I don't think it's as clear -- and I try to avoid sending new players to the Glossary in any event.

This entire section of the rulebook is worth perusing if you have a few extra minutes. The Basic Rulebook basically says, "read the dilemmas, resolve them yourself, you'll be fine," and 90% of the time you will be... but that hides a small iceberg of specifics about how to resolve dilemmas consistently and correctly the remaining 10% of the time. This section gives the specifics.

(EDIT: The rulebook's definition of "overcome" is out of date as of January, but the difference is slight and the only card in the game that cares about the change is Search and Seize. I'll need to update this rulebook to use "discarded" instead in this entry.)
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Ambassador
By T-Ricks (Rick Kinney)
 - Ambassador
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Professional
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2021
#379225
OKCoyote wrote:
T-Ricks wrote:Is there a "do as much as you can" rule in 1E? When facing Zaldan, if you only have one Diplomacy, does that one die if you fail to meet the requirements?
According to the dilemma resolution guide for Zaldan, the one Diplomacy does die.
Am I looking at the correct 1E dilemma resolution guide, by Kathy McCracken? :o Hopefully it's been updated a little since her time.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
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Moderator
#379230
T-Ricks wrote:Am I looking at the correct 1E dilemma resolution guide, by Kathy McCracken? :o Hopefully it's been updated a little since her time.
I don't think it has. Stick with Mr. Heaney's rule book when you can...
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Writing Team Manager
By OKCoyote (Daniel Matteson)
 - Writing Team Manager
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1E World Quarter-Finalist 2021
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2021
Specialist
1E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2021
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2021
#379255
T-Ricks wrote:
OKCoyote wrote:
T-Ricks wrote:Is there a "do as much as you can" rule in 1E? When facing Zaldan, if you only have one Diplomacy, does that one die if you fail to meet the requirements?
According to the dilemma resolution guide for Zaldan, the one Diplomacy does die.
Am I looking at the correct 1E dilemma resolution guide, by Kathy McCracken? :o Hopefully it's been updated a little since her time.
I was looking at the individual DRG entry on the card's page. The Rules Team updated them awhile back.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
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Praetor
1E American National Champion 2020
2E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#379257
OKCoyote wrote: I was looking at the individual DRG entry on the card's page. The Rules Team updated them awhile back.
I need to get back to that project, i am behind on the new sets.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#379501
warpaw wrote:I love that Job is essentially the legal division of 1E.
I think Job was the legal expert of ancient times.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
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2E World Semi-Finalist 2021
Grand Nagus
1E North American Continental Champion 2021
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2021
#564423
Sorry for the thread necro, but I was thinking about Zaldan this morning and was wondering if anyone had ever made a complete list of dilemmas like it which whiff due to lack of target. I seem to recall Center of Attention and Cardassian Trap being on the list.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#564424
jadziadax8 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:16 pm Sorry for the thread necro, but I was thinking about Zaldan this morning and was wondering if anyone had ever made a complete list of dilemmas like it which whiff due to lack of target. I seem to recall Center of Attention and Cardassian Trap being on the list.
Berserk Changeling too, though in practical terms I've never seen it whiff for lack of target.
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