[Se7enofMine]

Hey all,

Just going over some cards and a few questions popped up.

1) new arrivals: on first glance, seems awesome. Report a personnel for free each turn. Pretty sweet. Until the catch hits .. If you report more than 1 per turn, it's discarded. Most affiliations can report more than one personnel for free per turn. I'm building a ferengi deck as well as a dominion deck. Dominion, with deyos, a couple of maturation chambers and the great link .. blows a hole right in New Arrivals. Sure, perhaps the first few turns, if you drew horribly and your engine isn't full steam yet, gets a few extra cards in play. But otherwise ... So I'm wondering.. is it all that good a card?

2) If you have a card that says you can report a personnel with 'X' criteria and you have a personnel that has x but also y .. is that an appropriate download? Example that occurred to me. Activate subcommands says you can d/l one of each designation drone (red blue green). Cool. Seven of mine has all three (as an example..the queen does as well) designations. Can you use ONE of those designations (say, security) and d/l her as one of the three?

3) artifacts in general. They seem like a great idea but the reality is that I don't think games are long enough to really get full use of them. I've watched/read tourney results and it seems like most games don't go past turn 8-11. Considering you have to a) use a seed on an artifact, b) complete/solve a mission ... this will generally happen around turn 5 or so...to get the artifact; thus really only giving you 5 or so turns to use the artifact... is it really worth the trouble?

Thats all folks

Just curious to get your thoughts on how you approach these cards or how they interact with rules.

[pfti]

Hey all,

Just going over some cards and a few questions popped up.

1) new arrivals: on first glance, seems awesome. Report a personnel for free each turn. Pretty sweet. Until the catch hits .. If you report more than 1 per turn, it's discarded. Most affiliations can report more than one personnel for free per turn. I'm building a ferengi deck as well as a dominion deck. Dominion, with deyos, a couple of maturation chambers and the great link .. blows a hole right in New Arrivals. Sure, perhaps the first few turns, if you drew horribly and your engine isn't full steam yet, gets a few extra cards in play. But otherwise ... So I'm wondering.. is it all that good a card?

2) If you have a card that says you can report a personnel with 'X' criteria and you have a personnel that has x but also y .. is that an appropriate download? Example that occurred to me. Activate subcommands says you can d/l one of each designation drone (red blue green). Cool. Seven of mine has all three (as an example..the queen does as well) designations. Can you use ONE of those designations (say, security) and d/l her as one of the three?

3) artifacts in general. They seem like a great idea but the reality is that I don't think games are long enough to really get full use of them. I've watched/read tourney results and it seems like most games don't go past turn 8-11. Considering you have to a) use a seed on an artifact, b) complete/solve a mission ... this will generally happen around turn 5 or so...to get the artifact; thus really only giving you 5 or so turns to use the artifact... is it really worth the trouble?

Thats all folks

Just curious to get your thoughts on how you approach these cards or how they interact with rules.

1. it can be a good card depending on the deck. Note that additional plays that happen that dont use the word "free" e.g. requesting the itemor nanoprobe resuscitation or downloading dont break this card. So a lot of decks that rely on these mechanics can make a lot of this card. others cannot

2. you can make seven any one of those. as long as they meet condition you only need to count them as x condition

3. depends on the artifact. Offzel Vase and Genisis device see lots of play. others less so.

[Armus]

Hey all,

Just going over some cards and a few questions popped up.

1) new arrivals: on first glance, seems awesome. Report a personnel for free each turn. Pretty sweet. Until the catch hits .. If you report more than 1 per turn, it's discarded. Most affiliations can report more than one personnel for free per turn. I'm building a ferengi deck as well as a dominion deck. Dominion, with deyos, a couple of maturation chambers and the great link .. blows a hole right in New Arrivals. Sure, perhaps the first few turns, if you drew horribly and your engine isn't full steam yet, gets a few extra cards in play. But otherwise ... So I'm wondering.. is it all that good a card?

2) If you have a card that says you can report a personnel with 'X' criteria and you have a personnel that has x but also y .. is that an appropriate download? Example that occurred to me. Activate subcommands says you can d/l one of each designation drone (red blue green). Cool. Seven of mine has all three (as an example..the queen does as well) designations. Can you use ONE of those designations (say, security) and d/l her as one of the three?

3) artifacts in general. They seem like a great idea but the reality is that I don't think games are long enough to really get full use of them. I've watched/read tourney results and it seems like most games don't go past turn 8-11. Considering you have to a) use a seed on an artifact, b) complete/solve a mission ... this will generally happen around turn 5 or so...to get the artifact; thus really only giving you 5 or so turns to use the artifact... is it really worth the trouble?

Thats all folks

Just curious to get your thoughts on how you approach these cards or how they interact with rules.

1. it can be a good card depending on the deck. Note that additional plays that happen that dont use the word "free" e.g. requesting the itemor nanoprobe resuscitation or downloading dont break this card. So a lot of decks that rely on these mechanics can make a lot of this card. others cannot

2. you can make seven any one of those. as long as they meet condition you only need to count them as x condition

3. depends on the artifact. Offzel Vase and Genisis device see lots of play. others less so.

1.) New Arrivals does really well in a Cardassian, Dominion, or Borg deck. Also, requesting the item DOES break it (play it FOR FREE and draw a card, or...). Borg can turn that extra draw into a non-personnel download or a drone to hand with First Contact Borg Queen, and Cardie and Dominion can get downloads every turn with Assign Support Personnel and Dominion War Efforts that help make up for the slower flow of people out of your hand.

2.) What pfti said.

3.) Also what pfti said, but I would include Starry Night and equipment artifacts like The City of B\'Hala, Orb of Wisdom, Interphase Generator, or even Mona Lisa. Like all things, it depends on the deck.

[BCSWowbagger]

As the game has shortened, Artifacts have definitely lost a lot of their utility, and only a few of the 42 extant artifacts are really usable. Quite a few of the weaker artifacts are now downloadable by somebody or other in order to get them into play more often, and there's also the relatively new mission Seek Illicit Relic, which I don't think is being used to its full utility yet.

[PantsOfTheTalShiar]

1) New Arrivals was designed as a generic play/draw engine that could be used in starter decks, and it was given that drawback so it couldn't just be thrown into any deck. I find it most useful when you have a reliable way to download personnel each turn. I like the combo with Dominion War Efforts because you can play close to 3 personnel per turn on average and don't need to spend any more seed slots or card plays on drawing. But yes, you might find that there are better options for whatever decks you are building.

2) If something is an X, then it counts as an X even if it is also a Y. Seven is a drone and a drone and a drone, so she can count as any one of the three drones you download with Activate Subcommands. Likewise, Spock counts fully as a Vulcan even though he is also Human.

3) I'll add Blade of Tkon, Kurlan Naiskos, and Cryosatellite to the list of occasionally used artifacts. An artifact is something a deck needs to be built around; you aren't going to build a random deck and then pick an artifact to use with it. I think that's a good balance.

[Se7enofMine]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Was a busy weekend with family out of town (twas a long weekend here in the Rainy White North).

So pfti played a game on Sunday and he summarily busted me up pretty hard haha. After such a long break from the game, hardly surprising. But it showed me how many of the rules I just dont remember AND the small little intricacies I simply forgot. Boy oh boy

Some comments on the comments provided by you fine folks:

1) Fair enough on the new arrivals. Pants' Dominion idea is pretty sweet. I wouldnt have thought of that combo (shocking, Im sure ).

2) Yeah. I noticed this in the glossary on Monday morning. Oops. My apologies.

3) Definitely understand and appreciate both sides of the artifact debate. As an example, the game with pfti, he had a mission solved on turn ... 4, I think. By turn, 6 or 7, I was DOA and the game was over. So had he seeded an artifact, it would have been fairly moot. Of course, you dont know going into a game that it will be over by turn 6 so that's the other side of the coin.

I have another question (again, shocking). I'm curious to know how card draws vs downloads vs card text inter-relate.

Example: you have a card in play, say an event that says "blah blah .. at the end of your turn, you may draw an extra card." The implication being that, all things being equal, you now have the ability to draw 2 cards at end of turn. However, in the text for "Ops" (station location), it says "yadda yadda d/l one card. Draw no cards this turn." How does that play together with the previous card? Does the draw no cards overrule the drawing of ANY cards that turn? Or, does it overrule the drawing of what your "normal" card draw would be, BUT, you get the extra card draw from the event in play, which is aside from the Ops wording, as it is above and beyond?

I feel like such a dolt for these questions. Im SURE I knew them when I used to play. But my brain is completely blanking. I'll blame old age .. and the blonde hair

As usual and always, thank you all.

As a side note: I post on different community boards. Hockey, Football, a NASA/Science/Space board. I gotta say, without a doubt, this community is by far the most helpful/friendly. Im SO glad I found this site

[BCSWowbagger]

So pfti played a game on Sunday and he summarily busted me up pretty hard haha.

Haha, yeah, pfti's good. If you even came close it'd be a notable achievement.

you have a card in play, say an event that says "blah blah .. at the end of your turn, you may draw an extra card." The implication being that, all things being equal, you now have the ability to draw 2 cards at end of turn. However, in the text for "Ops" (station location), it says "yadda yadda d/l one card. Draw no cards this turn." How does that play together with the previous card? Does the draw no cards overrule the drawing of ANY cards that turn?

Yep. A "draw no cards this turn" instruction means that, from this point forward, you may not draw any cards for the rest of the turn, specifically cancelling both your normal card draw and all other draws you may earn/be given. If a card only wants to take away your regular card draw, it will say that: "Skip your regular card draw this turn." (Klim Dokachin is an example of that.)

So, yes "Draw no cards this turn" is a strong penalty. (Although there's a neat li'l card called We Need You Here that makes it much less punishing on a Nor.)

Here's the full Glossary entry for it. Back when you were playing, the Glossary probably wasn't quite as central to the game's rules as it is today, but we're kinda stuck with it for now:

You may perform as many actions as you like
each turn that have the restriction “draw no
cards this turn” (e.g., playing a Q’s Tent,
downloading with Ops). You may not then
draw any more cards for the remainder of
the turn, by any means (normal card draw,
Kivas Fajo – Collector, Masaka
Transformations, etc.), or use an ability
(such as the Borg Queen’s special skill) that
allows you to perform an action in place of a
card draw.

However, if the first action you perform
imposing a restriction of “draw no cards this
turn” triggers a “just” action or valid
response of drawing a card, the “just” action
or valid response occurs before the
restriction takes effect. See turn, actions –
“just.”

As a side note: I post on different community boards. Hockey, Football, a NASA/Science/Space board. I gotta say, without a doubt, this community is by far the most helpful/friendly. Im SO glad I found this site

We're glad you did, too!

[Caretaker's Guest]

With Reshape the Quadrant and We need you here your DS9-property peps can be downloaded without that restriction. But you would limit yourself to DS9 only.

There are some draw/cycle mechanics that can be realized at start of turn before your actual card play. E.g. Process Ore and Process Ore: Mining or Interrupts like The Power, Mutation, Parallax + Kivas/Temporal Shifting (if opponent does not choose the points that is).

Welcome back .

[commdecker]

Does the draw no cards overrule the drawing of ANY cards that turn?

Yup.

As a side note: I post on different community boards. Hockey, Football, a NASA/Science/Space board. I gotta say, without a doubt, this community is by far the most helpful/friendly. Im SO glad I found this site

Great! Welcome!

[Se7enofMine]

So pfti played a game on Sunday and he summarily busted me up pretty hard haha.

Haha, yeah, pfti's good. If you even came close it'd be a notable achievement.

you have a card in play, say an event that says "blah blah .. at the end of your turn, you may draw an extra card." The implication being that, all things being equal, you now have the ability to draw 2 cards at end of turn. However, in the text for "Ops" (station location), it says "yadda yadda d/l one card. Draw no cards this turn." How does that play together with the previous card? Does the draw no cards overrule the drawing of ANY cards that turn?

Yep. A "draw no cards this turn" instruction means that, from this point forward, you may not draw any cards for the rest of the turn, specifically cancelling both your normal card draw and all other draws you may earn/be given. If a card only wants to take away your regular card draw, it will say that: "Skip your regular card draw this turn." (Klim Dokachin is an example of that.)

So, yes "Draw no cards this turn" is a strong penalty. (Although there's a neat li'l card called We Need You Here that makes it much less punishing on a Nor.)

Here's the full Glossary entry for it. Back when you were playing, the Glossary probably wasn't quite as central to the game's rules as it is today, but we're kinda stuck with it for now:

You may perform as many actions as you like
each turn that have the restriction “draw no
cards this turn” (e.g., playing a Q’s Tent,
downloading with Ops). You may not then
draw any more cards for the remainder of
the turn, by any means (normal card draw,
Kivas Fajo – Collector, Masaka
Transformations, etc.), or use an ability
(such as the Borg Queen’s special skill) that
allows you to perform an action in place of a
card draw.

However, if the first action you perform
imposing a restriction of “draw no cards this
turn” triggers a “just” action or valid
response of drawing a card, the “just” action
or valid response occurs before the
restriction takes effect. See turn, actions –
“just.”

As a side note: I post on different community boards. Hockey, Football, a NASA/Science/Space board. I gotta say, without a doubt, this community is by far the most helpful/friendly. Im SO glad I found this site

We're glad you did, too!

Yeah .. it wasnt close. At all lol He had something like 70pts by turn 6 or 7 and I just had my ship blown up. SO glad my first game was against a master. Good for the ego, right there haha So no achievements here

Ahhh ...ok. I hadnt seen the We Need You Here card. Interesting. I played a Borg deck against PFTI and, I think, after not playing for so long, thats the wrong way to go. So im working on something else. Mind you .. I say that and really all Im doing is stealing ideas from other decks. Combining this and that, reading articles and incorporating stuff. Im not reinventing the wheel here haha But thats a good card to note.

With Reshape the Quadrant and We need you here your DS9-property peps can be downloaded without that restriction. But you would limit yourself to DS9 only.

There are some draw/cycle mechanics that can be realized at start of turn before your actual card play. E.g. Process Ore and Process Ore: Mining or Interrupts like The Power, Mutation, Parallax + Kivas/Temporal Shifting (if opponent does not choose the points that is).

Welcome back .

As is reshape that quadrant. Didnt know about that one either. So many sets have been released its gonna take awhile to get up to speed on the one's I missed. But good to know


To all: thanks I even reached out (just last night) to my old roommate who I hadnt spoken to in like 8 years maybe? Just sorta lost touch. I mentioned all my sappy crap about memories of STCCG games, blah blah. So we struck up a conversation and Im hoping that he finds his way here

[BCSWowbagger]

Edit: Are there any resources for "lists" of cards by type? Ie. For example: is there a link to a list of all the Q type cards, specifically one's used with Q the Ref?

The Card Search Engine takes some time to get used to, but once you get it it's spectacularly powerful.

Here's a list of All Ref Cards Still Legal In OTF (for use with Q The Referee)

Here's Every Dilemma You Need An AU Door To Seed (note: Quantum Incursions is not a dilemma, but does need an AU door to seed like one)

Here's All Mission Specialists, for use with Assign Mission Specialists.

Here's Every Single Trait, which basically is a whole lot of pre-built searches for useful things.

So... like I said, it takes some time to learn the engine, but, once it clicks, it is astoundingly good at finding whatever you want.

[Se7enofMine]

Ok. Lets all laugh at Chad. Ready?

So, upon seeing BCS' post, I went ahead and clicked search that's right here in the forums. I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how the hell you were getting these search results.

Then I said "Ok im gonna start over here." Go to the home page. "Oh hey look, card search engine." To save some self-esteem, I'm going to run with ... that link was only put there after BCS sent the last post in this thread.

*le big sigh* haha

EDIT: Also, thank you

[Boffo97]

We all have moments on here where we discover some resource and say "Oh, man! That's so useful! I can't believe I didn't know about this before! I feel stupid!"

Personally, I got my revenge for that by designing an inventory spreadsheet that makes others say the same thing.

(Gotta get on adding LLAP...)

[VioletBlaze]

Hey since we're doing random rules questions...

If I play Gagh Tek Or? to download Lursa and B'etor, but for Lursa I choose Sisters of Duras... first of all, can I choose Sisters of Duras in the first place, and second, what happens with B'Etor in the process? Does the whole download just become invalid and I wasted a card play?

(See this is what happens when I click on links to interesting searches and start getting curious...)

[Armus]

Hey since we're doing random rules questions...

If I play Gagh Tek Or? to download Lursa and B'etor, but for Lursa I choose Sisters of Duras... first of all, can I choose Sisters of Duras in the first place, and second, what happens with B'Etor in the process? Does the whole download just become invalid and I wasted a card play?

(See this is what happens when I click on links to interesting searches and start getting curious...)

You can't download the Sisters with this card. You can only download cards with the matching card titles listed or a personnel with the Klingon Restaurant. Sisters of Duras fit none of the above (though it contains personae of both Lursa and B'Etor)