[eberlems]

What happens if you play a Kevin Uxbridge: Convergence at a Romulan Minefield? I'm honestly curious.

Glossary for Gaps in normal Space has this entry:

This event creates a spaceline location of unspecified type. If the event is nullified discarded), the “gap” in the spaceline is closed. Any cards played directly on the event are also discarded. Any ships or other cards at that spaceline location are relocated to one adjacent spaceline location by the player who nullified the event.

But that was the only event that created a spaceline location for a long time. I don't think that applies to Romulan Minefield, but I think it should.

And there are the Wormholes that create new locations of "unspecified type".
But other than Supernova, you can't blow them up. Maybe swallow with black hole.

[LORE]

Make it unique! and/or once it's triggered, it's discarded.

This is tricky, because we don't want the card to be binder fodder either. It obviously can't be culturally enforced with Vulcans to curb IDIC:PotHC since it is truly a Romulan event, but at the same time it should cost you something. If it were non-unique but required a card play and there were no draws coming off the backend from IDIC, it would probably be fine.

[Hoss-Drone]

Ignore Ben if he's bothering you. What do you think of my and Kris's thoughts? I think his post went up when I was young mine but it sounds like we're saying basically the same thing.

So giving it some thought I think it needs to be handled from two different directions:

1. Idic: pothc needs more cultural enforcement as you suggest.

2. From a balance (and trek sense) perspective the minefields should not grant immunity to romulan ships. Gaps, etc don't have favoritism so if you play a lot of it, it might hurt u too. I mean, just because they're 'your' mines doesn't mean you don't have to be careful around them. so remove the romulan ship protection and make the spaceline slowdown more even.

[bhosp]

[quote="Hoss-Drone”]

... and you ignored the valid questions. I wonder why. /sarcasm

Edit* But thank u for reminding me of the toxic bs that permeates this place and why I don't post or come on here much anymore.[/quote]

I think the card is fine. The current meta seems to have a lot of people not playing Romulans but playing a lot of missions with Romulan icons; it won’t seem as OP if either of those things change.

I wouldn’t mind a new version of Kevin Uxbridge that destroys all copies of an event if more than one copy of that event is in play, so you can get rid of ALL MINEFIELDS EVERYWHERE


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[BCSWowbagger]

I'm inclined to agree that the lack of cultural enforcement on IDIC: PotHC may be problematic. This was not something we foresaw during Design. (Dan, am I allowed to admit that?) When Armus divulged his plan to me, I went, "Whoa."

However, maybe I'm missing something, but isn't there a relatively straightforward meta response to this? Avoid missions with the icon (unless you're playing ). Now your opponent is either (a) clustering his own missions together and fortifying them (which you don't care about unless you're an aggressor) or (b) has to spend several normal card plays polluting your spaceline with this, at which point a good ol' Subspace Warp Rift starts to make more sense. The whole strategy seems to depend upon the element of surprise.

It's been a while since players really had to worry about what attemptability icons are on their missions -- I personally haven't thought about it since the heyday of Linguisitic Legerdemain* -- but it seems like a reasonable thing to say, "Yes, you can go ahead and use that unbelievably great Fissure Research and the super-popular Visit Tranquil Colony along with Unstealable Earth... but if you do you've got a high risk of getting mined."

Okay, now tell me why my answer doesn't work. I've read the decklists but haven't seen them in play. Maybe they don't care if they have to card-play the minefields.

*(well, and that one time I tried to get Wil Riker, Bajoran Resistance Cell, and the City of B'Hala to all work together nicely)

[LORE]

Okay, now tell me why my answer doesn't work.

Because your entire answer, James, hinges on the fact that the card plays do not add a benefit and with IDIC:PotHC, those card plays net 2 card draws. Put another way, they are just as effective as Let's See What's Out There when the opponent is in a different quadrant. Oh, wait... nope... still better because the active player has added pollution to the space line, either for aggressive or defensive purposes.

[BCSWowbagger]

Okay, fair enough.

Suppose we remove the icon from Romulan Minefield. In that case, would Armus's deck simply switch to using a different Scheme? Would he spam Thorough Debriefing and Strange New World instead of Romulan Minefield? Or are those not as good? In other words: are the draws on Power of the High Command simply too much? (And would a scheme-less Romulan Minefield still be a problem without support from High Command / Cautionary Tale?)

Just about everybody in this thread is a better interference player than I am, so I'll probably keep asking questions for a while.

[LORE]

Okay, fair enough.

Suppose we remove the icon from Romulan Minefield.

That probably solve the problem, since it essentially reverse culturally enforces it.

[Armus]

Okay, fair enough.

Suppose we remove the icon from Romulan Minefield. In that case, would Armus's deck simply switch to using a different Scheme? Would he spam Thorough Debriefing and Strange New World instead of Romulan Minefield? Or are those not as good? In other words: are the draws on Power of the High Command simply too much? (And would a scheme-less Romulan Minefield still be a problem without support from High Command / Cautionary Tale?)

Just about everybody in this thread is a better interference player than I am, so I'll probably keep asking questions for a while.

Kind of hard to spam SNW, Through Debriefing, and You're Not Ready since all three of them are unique. Doing that would also likely make Cautionary Tale a mandatory seed for any IDIC: Power deck, but now you're wandering into Lego Set territory, which if you've read any of the 2e threads over the last two years, is not a great place for design to be heading. Again: PROCEED WITH CAUTION.

I'll say it again: let's not overreact to this. Romulan Minefield is a strong card with uses in multiple decks, but that in and of itself is NOT a bad thing.

I wouldn't mind it as is if we make a Romulan Player become a true Romulan/Vulcan player to get the full benefit of the card draw engine AND the interference tech. I see neither a Vulcan Deck spamming Minefields for card draws, nor a Romulan Fortress deck running interference as bad things for the meta, but making it too easy for one deck to do both is where you run into problems.

I've yet to hear any reason that culturally enforcing IDIC doesn't solve the problem. Why can't we do that?

Removing the icon from minefield could also work, but before doing that, I'd recommend Design cook up a different, maybe more culturally non-unique card to power this drawing engine. Otherwise it's a bit meh.

[BCSWowbagger]

Kind of hard to spam SNW, Through Debriefing, and You're Not Ready since all three of them are unique.

Ha ha ha I'm a dumbo who links cards without re-reading them.

[Armus]

(And would a scheme-less Romulan Minefield still be a problem without support from High Command / Cautionary Tale?)

Just to zoom in on this, I'm not drawing conclusions as to good or bad, but a Romulan Minefield deck could get nasty even if there weren't any draws involved.

Minefield + Cytherians + Raptor sniping + a well-built Battle Bridge Side Deck = KABOOM.

That's really good even if I have to use card plays and don't get any draws.

That said, this can hit the low ship solvers the hardest, and there's a case to be made that those decks have had it pretty easy lately, so again, I'm not drawing conclusions, just offering insight.

[LORE]

Just to zoom in on this, I'm not drawing conclusions as to good or bad, but a Romulan Minefield deck could get nasty even if there weren't any draws involved.

Minefield + Cytherians + Raptor sniping + a well-built Battle Bridge Side Deck = KABOOM.

That's really good even if I have to use card plays and don't get any draws.

I understand that we don't want to fall into a paranoid state where anybody can scream foul the moment they lose to something they don't like. But Kevin, who's an excellent interactive player, is voicing a concern. When someone who could potentially obliterate a field and hand out NPE's like candy is bringing an issue up, I don't think we should dismissively sweep it under the rug. I know my warning bells are going off, and I hope the 1E team has them firing off too. They have been great about nipping nonsense like this in the bud over the past few months, and I am hopeful this will catch someone's eye as well.

It doesn't seem like anyone in this thread thinks the link between IDIC and Romulan Minefield shouldn't be severed. So.... let's take care of it before it gets too far out of hand. I shouldn't need to reanimate TNG Romulan PNZ battle and incorporate IDIC + Minefields to get erratas attention that this needs to get looked at, just as we shouldn't need too much more data to know it is a problem. Brian won with it using Vulcans. Seems fair, given he was using it how design seems to have intended it be used. This weekend, Jon won a Regional with it in an all Romulan deck and only gave up one mission over 3 games. Isn't that enough of a reason to at least add it to the watch list?

[Hoss-Drone]

(And would a scheme-less Romulan Minefield still be a problem without support from High Command / Cautionary Tale?)

Just to zoom in on this, I'm not drawing conclusions as to good or bad, but a Romulan Minefield deck could get nasty even if there weren't any draws involved.

Minefield + Cytherians + Raptor sniping + a well-built Battle Bridge Side Deck = KABOOM.

That's really good even if I have to use card plays and don't get any draws.

That said, this can hit the low ship solvers the hardest, and there's a case to be made that those decks have had it pretty easy lately, so again, I'm not drawing conclusions, just offering insight.

+1. Jon showed what it can do in a solver. With all due respect to Brian, I plan to abuse the minefields in a way independent of its icon spotting and scheme icon. Part of how I advised Brian on his deck was already having my deck built and it being next level in its abuse and part of that is what I see in Jon's build: the interference being one way means it's offense and defense in a single card play and that's something that usually takes more to accomplish in 1e.

To use an analogy, it's less of a lockout than borg post garrison but it feels even easier to do.

[MidnightLich]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. As the acting First Edition Brand Manager, I have instructed the 1E Errata Team to take a look at these cards and the decks that are doing well with them. We will be keeping an eye on Romulan Minefield and IDIC: Power of the High Command as well, to ensure the play environment remains healthy and competitive.

However, it's important to note that these decks have been in the meta for a total of nine (9) days at this point. We don't want to act too hastily before the meta has a chance to adapt (assuming there is a reasonable path to do so). At the same time, we aren't going to let this go on so long that it warps the game and frustrates players indefinitely.

So right now, we'll be keeping an eye on this. We encourage you to discuss options, strategies, and share your thoughts and opinions. We will be reading and listening and will move once there is a clear and compelling case for doing so.

-crp

[Borg King]

Just to zoom in on this, I'm not drawing conclusions as to good or bad, but a Romulan Minefield deck could get nasty even if there weren't any draws involved.

Minefield + Cytherians + Raptor sniping + a well-built Battle Bridge Side Deck = KABOOM

I have been super excited to use this card ever since it has been revealed and while I haven't had the chance to place it in a deck yet, I am fascinated with all the interactions listed here so far! I knew it had potential, but this is really amazing!

Interested in how this plays out; hopefully a balance can take shape soon.