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By Top41
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#421521
I have a group of friends I've started playing somewhat regularly with, and the more advanced player and I went a couple of rounds this weekend. In one of our games, he started a mission that had four dilemmas under it. He passed one and then hit the Aphasia Device, which forced him to head back to his outpost and wait a few turns to get enough Medical and Biology to overcome it.

In the meantime, I solved a mission and was about to exhaust my draw deck (thus ending the game). I was right next to the mission he had started but hadn't completed. My question is: could I have gone to that mission and finished it and scored those points? There were two dilemmas left. The score was 65-60: he was winning, and if I'd finished that mission and scored those points before I drew my last card, I would have won. We weren't sure what the rule was so I didn't end up doing the mission but I told him I'd start a thread and ask the experts!

In case it matters--we just play the traditional game. We use both Decipher era and virtual cards, but nothing is banned save for Raise the Stakes.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#421527
if you are not playing the OTF rules, then you can go take any mission of your opponents assuming you have a personnel that lets you attempt.

Now they could always stop you with fair play, but that is your risk to take
 
By Top41
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#421529
pfti wrote:if you are not playing the OTF rules, then you can go take any mission of your opponents assuming you have a personnel that lets you attempt.
Great to know--thank you! So the fact that he'd started it and left with two dilemmas left to solve didn't matter at all. I will pass that on to him!
Now they could always stop you with fair play, but that is your risk to take
Ah yes! I don't think he had that card with him based on our discussion, but I guess in fairness I should let him know that, too. ;) :)
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#421559
Top41 wrote:
pfti wrote:if you are not playing the OTF rules, then you can go take any mission of your opponents assuming you have a personnel that lets you attempt.
Great to know--thank you! So the fact that he'd started it and left with two dilemmas left to solve didn't matter at all. I will pass that on to him!
This is, traditionally, one of the huge risks in attempting a mission, particularly one that can be stolen: you might clear out the whole mission except for one last wall, then your opponent swoops in, beats the wall, and takes the points out from under your nose. Back in the days of widespread mission theft (before OTF, basically), lots of people crafted dilemma combos to encourage this to happen.
 
By Top41
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#421645
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Top41 wrote:
pfti wrote:if you are not playing the OTF rules, then you can go take any mission of your opponents assuming you have a personnel that lets you attempt.
Great to know--thank you! So the fact that he'd started it and left with two dilemmas left to solve didn't matter at all. I will pass that on to him!
This is, traditionally, one of the huge risks in attempting a mission, particularly one that can be stolen: you might clear out the whole mission except for one last wall, then your opponent swoops in, beats the wall, and takes the points out from under your nose. Back in the days of widespread mission theft (before OTF, basically), lots of people crafted dilemma combos to encourage this to happen.
I gotta say, it did feel a little unsportsman like to attempt his mission, especially after he'd already cleared out two of the dilemmas, which is why I ultimately decided against it. Is attempting your opponent's missions completely banned in OTF?
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#421647
Top41 wrote:I gotta say, it did feel a little unsportsman like to attempt his mission, especially after he'd already cleared out two of the dilemmas, which is why I ultimately decided against it. Is attempting your opponent's missions completely banned in OTF?
Its not really unsportsmanlike, persae. Its within the rules of the game. Whether we agree with it or not is a different matter :)

And yessiree.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#421654
Top41 wrote:Is attempting your opponent's missions completely banned in OTF?
Not quite. You can steal steal missions showing 40+ points, shared missions, and ❖ missions. The rule is pretty close to what Fair Play established as the norm, and just took the rule off the card and put it in the rulebook. (The difference being that you can steal ❖ missions as well for some reason I've never quite understood.)
Last edited by BCSWowbagger on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#421655
I suspect there are reasons.....

In fairness I have no concrete info on why ❖ missions are stealable.
Last edited by Iron Prime on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#421662
Iron Prime wrote:In fairness I have no concrete info on why ❖ missions are stealable.
Nobody does! The original conversations about what rules should be included in OTF were very extensive... and they were all held in Google Wave. I was very upset when I discovered this fact, Even more upset when I discovered that there is absolutely no way to recover data from Google Wave anymore -- and nobody involved in the OTF discussions appears to have archived them.
I suspect there are reasons.....
Bah! Between the OTF rules for The Big Picture, Intermix Ratio, and The Wake of the Borg, I make the following Sweeping Pronouncement: PNZ decks are not a problem.
Last edited by BCSWowbagger on Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By PantsOfTheTalShiar (Jason Tang)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#421664
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Top41 wrote:Is attempting your opponent's missions completely banned in OTF?
Not quite. You can steal steal missions showing 40+ points, shared missions, and ❖ missions. The rule is pretty close to what Fair Play established as the norm, and just took the rule off the card and put it in the rulebook. (The difference being that you can steal ❖ missions as well for some reason I've never quite understood.)
You might understand the reason why OTF doesn't protect universal missions if you re-read Fair Play. :)
Last edited by PantsOfTheTalShiar on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#421667
Pants o.t. Tal Shiar wrote: You might understand the reason why OTF doesn't protect universal missions if you re-read Fair Play. :)
"unique"

*headdesk*

Y'know, this is not even the first time I have made this mistake in a public thread. You can check the archives. I've said the same thing before and been corrected in the same way.

Of course, Fair Play was originally written under the old rules for universal missions, when that limitation actually made some sense. Back then, if both players attempted to seed the same unique mission, the second player did not get to seed it as a shared mission; he was required to discard his copy and download a ❖ mission as a replacement. So not having Fair Play protect ❖ missions was a way to keep things even in games where that happened. But that rule is long, long gone, and I'd love to know what the OTF Rules Committee said about it when they were writing it up.
Last edited by BCSWowbagger on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#421680
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Iron Prime wrote:In fairness I have no concrete info on why ❖ missions are stealable.
Nobody does! The original conversations about what rules should be included in OTF were very extensive... and they were all held in Google Wave. I was very upset when I discovered this fact, Even more upset when I discovered that there is absolutely no way to recover data from Google Wave anymore -- and nobody involved in the OTF discussions appears to have archived them.
I might have an archive of them somewhere. I remember trying to download all the content when they announced that Google Wave was going away, but it was a troublesome process. I can't recall if I was successful.

Time for a hard drive scavenger hunt!

-crp
Last edited by MidnightLich on Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#421687
Oh, wow! I would personally open your cause for canonization if you managed to dig up copies of it, Charlie.
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By commdecker (Matthew Zinno)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Arbiter
Community Contributor
#421721
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Top41 wrote:Is attempting your opponent's missions completely banned in OTF?
Not quite. You can steal steal missions showing 40+ points, shared missions, and ❖ missions. The rule is pretty close to what Fair Play established as the norm, and just took the rule off the card and put it in the rulebook. (The difference being that you can steal ❖ missions as well for some reason I've never quite understood.)
The actual difference is that Fair Play doesn't affect Borg.
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