[rsutton41]

When using Anastasia Komananov of Smoke Bomb does the Smoke Bomb have to play to her location?

[BCSWowbagger]

Yes.

If the card is played at
(or to affect something at, or to insert
adjacent to) one particular spaceline or
timeline location, the special download icon
must be at that location.

[Armus]

Follow-up: if I use her ability to smoke bomb at the start of a battle that happens during a mission attempt (say, from Sleeper Trap) and my personnel huge from the battle, does the mission attempt continue?

[HoodieDM]

Follow-up: if I use her ability to smoke bomb at the start of a battle that happens during a mission attempt (say, from Sleeper Trap) and my personnel huge from the battle, does the mission attempt continue?

Good question, the word "hide" or even Smoke Bomb itself isn't in the glossary. It depends on what they rule. When "hiding" is the team still present during the battle and become "Stopped" after the battle concludes...stopping everyone...or does it nullify the battle all together? Does it just make the Away Team immune to this battle?

I think the battle still has to take place, b/c otherwise, the battling team would just initiate another battle 2 seconds later. It just makes them immune from being targeted as a result of during/after the battle.

But let's see what the rules team comes up with.

~D

[Armus]

Follow-up: if I use her ability to smoke bomb at the start of a battle that happens during a mission attempt (say, from Sleeper Trap) and my personnel huge from the battle, does the mission attempt continue?

Good question, the word "hide" or even Smoke Bomb itself isn't in the glossary. It depends on what they rule. When "hiding" is the team still present during the battle and become "Stopped" after the battle concludes...stopping everyone...or does it nullify the battle all together? Does it just make the Away Team immune to this battle?

I think the battle still has to take place, b/c otherwise, the battling team would just initiate another battle 2 seconds later. It just makes them immune from being targeted as a result of during/after the battle.

But let's see what the rules team comes up with.

~D

Sleeper Trap allows them to initiate battle, interrupting the attempt. Hiding from the battle could mean the battle doesn't happen, or it could mean the hiding team is excluded but the attacking team is still stopped (they do initiate battle, they just can't find anybody to kill). In either case I don't think the attempting team is stopped, which means the mission attempt should continue.

Of course the angry Cardassians could still initiate battle on their owner's turn as a normal action, but that's way after the mission attempt. I don't think they can initiate battle on my turn again though because at that point there's no card allowing it.

[HoodieDM]

Sleeper Trap allows them to initiate battle, interrupting the attempt. Hiding from the battle could mean the battle doesn't happen, or it could mean the hiding team is excluded but the attacking team is still stopped (they do initiate battle, they just can't find anybody to kill). In either case I don't think the attempting team is stopped, which means the mission attempt should continue.

Of course the angry Cardassians could still initiate battle on their owner's turn as a normal action, but that's way after the mission attempt. I don't think they can initiate battle on my turn again though because at that point there's no card allowing it.

Correct, but I mean just in general terms of battle. Not just during mission attempts. If the Cardassians attack you during their turn, you Smoke Bomb, what would be the point if the battle fizzles but then they could just attack again? The point of Smoke Bomb was to help protect your team, but still have a consequence for the team attacking you. Smoke Bomb wasn't specifically designed for mission attempt battles.

Now I'm okay if Smoke Bomb is ruled that in the normal attack case that the attackers are stopped and the ones hiding are not. But that's where the clarification is needing ruled. Both parties involved could be ruled to both be stopped as well, which in this case, it's going to stop your Away Team during mission attempt.

~D

[Armus]

Sleeper Trap allows them to initiate battle, interrupting the attempt. Hiding from the battle could mean the battle doesn't happen, or it could mean the hiding team is excluded but the attacking team is still stopped (they do initiate battle, they just can't find anybody to kill). In either case I don't think the attempting team is stopped, which means the mission attempt should continue.

Of course the angry Cardassians could still initiate battle on their owner's turn as a normal action, but that's way after the mission attempt. I don't think they can initiate battle on my turn again though because at that point there's no card allowing it.

Correct, but I mean just in general terms of battle. Not just during mission attempts. If the Cardassians attack you during their turn, you Smoke Bomb, what would be the point if the battle fizzles but then they could just attack again? The point of Smoke Bomb was to help protect your team, but still have a consequence for the team attacking you. Smoke Bomb wasn't specifically designed for mission attempt battles.

Now I'm okay if Smoke Bomb is ruled that in the normal attack case that the attackers are stopped and the ones hiding are not. But that's where the clarification is needing ruled. Both parties involved could be ruled to both be stopped as well, which in this case, it's going to stop your Away Team during mission attempt.

~D

The scenario I described is how BenHosp ruled at Manassters, admittedly to my benefit. However, I agree that it's not obvious, and a formal clarification would be beneficial.

[bhosp]

I don’t remember making this ruling, and a clarification on what “hiding” from battle means would be useful for the case where the attempting player actually has a Smoke Bomb in hand, but regardless: wouldn’t the better play with Anastasia be to Smoke Bomb to stop your opponent’s Away Team between them being downloaded and initiating battle?


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[bhosp]

I think the battle still has to take place, b/c otherwise, the battling team would just initiate another battle 2 seconds later. It just makes them immune from being targeted as a result of during/after the battle.

I think when the card first came out, the idea was for you to use the first function to dodge a Rogue Borg Mercenaries battle (without getting stopped) and the second function to stop your opponent’s team that’s about to battle you.


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[bhosp]

Yes.

If the card is played at
(or to affect something at, or to insert
adjacent to) one particular spaceline or
timeline location, the special download icon
must be at that location.

Just to be clear, she doesn’t have to be *present*, she just has to be somewhere at the location*. So she can be on a ship at a Planet location and Smoke Bomb on an Away Team on the planet. (Smoke Bomb requires that you have personnel present, but that doesn’t mean that Anastasia herself has to be present.)

*Unless she’s at a site on a Nor that’s at the location, then I get confused about how that works so I try to avoid having that situation come up.


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[Karr]

i would say: "Yes there needs to be a clarifiacaction about what is meant by "hiding"!"

to keep it simple ... what do people do if they are hiding?

they dont do nothing but hiding.

in this special case the away team is throwing a smoke bombe and is looking for a safe place to be, to not be killed or stunned! they gonna stay at their safe place.
in my opinion they are stopped for now and that turn.

well ... that raises the question: what can the opponent do on his next turn? can he find the safe places of the other away team to battle them?
i would say: "NO!"
for this special case you need a special card! those guys are hiding. you cant see them. do you have any tricorder ???
maybe you have .. but ...

well i think tricorders are much more worth than they do in stccg ... they scan everything. maybe these tricorders might need an update too !?!

thats why i prefer using Emergency Transporter Armbands instead of smoke bomb

[BCSWowbagger]

Follow-up: if I use her ability to smoke bomb at the start of a battle that happens during a mission attempt (say, from Sleeper Trap) and my personnel huge from the battle, does the mission attempt continue?

No. All personnel are stopped.

I apologize for my brevity; I am on my phone in a (boring) meeting and can't quote Glossary entries, link cards, or deliver any of my usual rants.

Smoke Bomb is a valid response to the initiation of a personnel battle, cancelling that battle. See actions - step 2: valid responses. It functions the same as Asteroid Sanctuary (In space) or Resistance Tactics.

Because the battle was initiated, all personnel involved are stopped. See bullet point 6 of battle.

This seems wrong to me. Cancelling a battle should function the same as nullifying a dilemma; it adds uninteresting complexity for these identical concepts to have different impacts. The non-standard wording of Smoke Bomb compounds this. But thems the rules as they stand today.

I applaud Karr's dedication to Treksense

Also, +1 to bhosp's note that Anastasia doesn't have to be present, just at the location (in orbit, in a facility, whatever). This is also a bad rule that adds unhelpful complexity, IMO, but it is the rule. And I have been doing 1E nonsense for so long that I legit forgot that 1e's technical definition of "location" is not immediately obvious to everyone.

[HoodieDM]

Follow-up: if I use her ability to smoke bomb at the start of a battle that happens during a mission attempt (say, from Sleeper Trap) and my personnel huge from the battle, does the mission attempt continue?

No. All personnel are stopped.

I apologize for my brevity; I am on my phone in a (boring) meeting and can't quote Glossary entries, link cards, or deliver any of my usual rants.

Smoke Bomb is a valid response to the initiation of a personnel battle, cancelling that battle. See actions - step 2: valid responses. It functions the same as Asteroid Sanctuary (In space) or Resistance Tactics.

Because the battle was initiated, all personnel involved are stopped. See bullet point 6 of battle.

This seems wrong to me. Cancelling a battle should function the same as nullifying a dilemma; it add uninteresting complexity for them to be different. The non-standard wording of Smoke Bomb compounds this. But thems the rules as they stand today.

I applaud Karr's dedication to Treksense and bhosp's note that Anastasia doesn't have to be present, just at the location. This is also a bad rule that adds unhelpful complexity, IMO, but it is the rule. And I have been doing 1E nonsense for so long that I legit forgot that 1e's technical definition of "location" is not immediately obvious to everyone.

I honestly agree with this ruling that the targets are still "stopped" because even though they were hiding, they were still involved in the battle. Run, hide, & fight are all valid responses they teach us at work for Active Shooters

~D

[Armus]

Follow-up: if I use her ability to smoke bomb at the start of a battle that happens during a mission attempt (say, from Sleeper Trap) and my personnel huge from the battle, does the mission attempt continue?

No. All personnel are stopped.

I apologize for my brevity; I am on my phone in a (boring) meeting and can't quote Glossary entries, link cards, or deliver any of my usual rants.

Smoke Bomb is a valid response to the initiation of a personnel battle, cancelling that battle. See actions - step 2: valid responses. It functions the same as Asteroid Sanctuary (In space) or Resistance Tactics.

Because the battle was initiated, all personnel involved are stopped. See bullet point 6 of battle.

This seems wrong to me. Cancelling a battle should function the same as nullifying a dilemma; it add uninteresting complexity for them to be different. The non-standard wording of Smoke Bomb compounds this. But thems the rules as they stand today.

I applaud Karr's dedication to Treksense and bhosp's note that Anastasia doesn't have to be present, just at the location. This is also a bad rule that adds unhelpful complexity, IMO, but it is the rule. And I have been doing 1E nonsense for so long that I legit forgot that 1e's technical definition of "location" is not immediately obvious to everyone.

I honestly agree with this ruling that the targets are still "stopped" because even though they were hiding, they were still involved in the battle. Run, hide, & fight are all valid responses they teach us at work for Active Shooters

~D

So it sounds like BenHosp's alternative of Smoke Bomb between the Sleeper Trap Download and the initiating of the battle is the correct way to out-tech this dilemma. Since stopped personnel cannot initiate battle, the (if possible) clause kicks in and shuts that shit down.

[HoodieDM]

So it sounds like BenHosp's alternative of Smoke Bomb between the Sleeper Trap Download and the initiating of the battle is the correct way to out-tech this dilemma. Since stopped personnel cannot initiate battle, the (if possible) clause kicks in and shuts that shit down.

Yes, you can stop those personnel.

~D