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By Slayer07
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#434870
Ah but then we hit the question of which William T. Riker is better. And that's a debate I've had about personnel with multiple personas plenty of times. For the record I'd say there is almost no reason to use Premiere Riker and skill wise at least I much prefer FC Riker.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#434875
Slayer07 wrote:For the record I'd say there is almost no reason to use Premiere Riker and skill wise at least I much prefer FC Riker.
That's crazy! You're crazy!

Reasons Premiere Riker is fairly often the better play:

* He has Navigation
* He has a command star
* He's a cook (pretty handy for Do You Smell Something Burning?)

FC Riker has a few things going for him, too:

* He has a second level of Leadership
* He has an EE staff star, which is key in the right deck
* He has one more point of CUNNING (nbd)
* He can download Anti-Matter Spread, which may matter in the right meta

These are both quite strong versions of Riker, and there are definitely situations for each.
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By PantsOfTheTalShiar (Jason Tang)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#434876
BCSWowbagger wrote:I've used the FC EE occasionally because it's easier to staff, and there are some games where guaranteed Turn 1 staffing is just crucial.

The CoC EE is good, and could be made too good if a bunch of [EE] personnel eventually get made. But getting all the EE guys aboard is hard and will take much of the game, there's a limited number of EE personnel, the EE has to deal with [Fed] battle restrictions, and 10-16-17 is great but not a gamebreaker, especially with such a huge investment.

There's no risk, in other words, of a Battlestar Enterprise scenario, where everyone in the deck became a contributor to base stats and they passed 30.

CoC EE is an ambitious and powerful card, but I don't think it's too good, and I'm glad Design resisted the temptation (easier back then than it is today) to stick a "(limit 5)" clause on there just to be on the safe side.

My :twocents: , anyway. Good topic!
With the Frool Rule gone, the size of the Enterprise-E is limited only by the number of copies of Jae in your deck.
 
By Slayer07
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#434877
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Slayer07 wrote:For the record I'd say there is almost no reason to use Premiere Riker and skill wise at least I much prefer FC Riker.
That's crazy! You're crazy!

Reasons Premiere Riker is fairly often the better play:

* He has Navigation
* He has a command star
* He's a cook (pretty handy for Do You Smell Something Burning?)

FC Riker has a few things going for him, too:

* He has a second level of Leadership
* He has an EE staff star, which is key in the right deck
* He has one more point of CUNNING (nbd)
* He can download Anti-Matter Spread, which may matter in the right meta

These are both quite strong versions of Riker, and there are definitely situations for each.
Navigation is one of the most common skills, especially for the Federation. I mean speaking for myself if I really need Navigation then I'll go with Navigation x2 mission specialist Gibson as an ASM download. Command stars are also a dime a dozen. The cook thing is the only thing that I can't argue with except to point out it's only minimally useful, as you pointed out with DYSMB. The only other uses is for a [1E-DQ] mission and Klingon Café.

Don't need to sell me on FC Riker as that's the one I like best. Anti-Matter Spread is a Q's Tent and forget thing unless needed and [EE] is okay too. The Leadership x2 is also really great although let's be honest Leadership is even more common than Navigation. And let's not forget with TB Deanna Troi (arguably better I'd say than FC Troi) that [EE] will also serve as [Cmd].

Any points for CoC Riker? Heck these could be threads unto themselves.
Last edited by Slayer07 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#434879
Navigation is common, but is also an incredibly important skill for dilemmas and missions. Pretty much like Leadership that way! Not sure why you think the second level of Leadership is better. (Are you blowing your Going To The Top on this mope?)

It's usually better anyway for a personnel to have greater skill diversity rather than more levels of a single skill -- that second level of Leadership ain't gonna make Oops! or A Miner Confrontation any more overcome, but having that one Navigation can get you out of a lot of scrapes, from Astral Eddy to War Games.

Sure, command stars are a dime a dozen, but that's because you need a bunch! Most games I would much rather have a command star than an EE icon -- which may as well be blank.

Anti-Matter Spread is so very situational that it almost never survives getting cut out of my Tent for more important cards, so I barely count it as a factor.
 
By Slayer07
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#434880
BCSWowbagger wrote:Navigation is common, but is also an incredibly important skill for dilemmas and missions. Pretty much like Leadership that way! Not sure why you think the second level of Leadership is better. (Are you blowing your Going To The Top on this mope?)

It's usually better anyway for a personnel to have greater skill diversity rather than more levels of a single skill -- that second level of Leadership ain't gonna make Oops! or A Miner Confrontation any more overcome, but having that one Navigation can get you out of a lot of scrapes, from Astral Eddy to War Games.

Sure, command stars are a dime a dozen, but that's because you need a bunch! Most games I would much rather have a command star than an EE icon -- which may as well be blank.

Anti-Matter Spread is so very situational that it almost never survives getting cut out of my Tent for more important cards, so I barely count it as a factor.
Q and Alien Abduction take a moment to say hi.

I don't need one of the big guys in the game to give me Navigation when I can turn around and have multiple copies of Navigation x2 Gibson in play. And if I'm that desperate for Navigation CoC Riker will give me that x2 as well. And there are several other universal Navigation personnel too. Truth be told I've never had problems with either Navigation or Leadership, again two of the most common Federation skills in the game. And there aren't nearly as much need for [Cmd] as it seems, at least in my opinion...and again TB Deanna Troi makes up for that.

And for the record I prefer to use my Going to the Top on Admiral Riker, which comes with that Leadership (x2) and Navigation, mainly because it also allows me an Enterprise and can report free to Office of The President for free if desired.

Well we all have our different playstyles.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#434885
Slayer07 wrote:Q and Alien Abduction take a moment to say hi.
Yes, of course, there are contexts where it's better to have a 2 Leadership personnel, but a lot fewer contexts than where it's better to have 1 Navigation and 1 Leadership. That's all I'm saying. (I'm not even saying Premiere Riker is better than FC Riker -- just that this right here, "For the record I'd say there is almost no reason to use Premiere Riker and skill wise at least I much prefer FC Riker," is crazy talk. :) )
I don't need one of the big guys in the game to give me Navigation when I can turn around and have multiple copies of Navigation x2 Gibson in play.


I think if you've got multiple copies of Gibson in play, your deck construction is very strange. You play Gibson for mission specialist points. Otherwise she's too situational, and you'll pretty much always have a better card you could be playing.
And for the record I prefer to use my Going to the Top on Admiral Riker, which comes with that Leadership (x2) and Navigation, mainly because it also allows me an Enterprise and can report free to Office of The President for free if desired.
This is a correct take. Agreed.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
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#434896
Is FC Riker's double leadership supposed to be an in-joke about Frakes directing the movie? Because I can't think of an in-universe reason for his First Contact persona getting a Leadership upgrade.

Anyway, I agree - I would almost exclusively use the Premiere version over the FC version. Unless I was building an Ent-E [EE] deck, of course.
 
By Slayer07
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#434906
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Slayer07 wrote:
I don't need one of the big guys in the game to give me Navigation when I can turn around and have multiple copies of Navigation x2 Gibson in play.


I think if you've got multiple copies of Gibson in play, your deck construction is very strange. You play Gibson for mission specialist points. Otherwise she's too situational, and you'll pretty much always have a better card you could be playing.
Well yes that's true enough too I don't deny that one. Personally I don't use more than one ❖ personnel in my decks without a good reason behind it and in the Federation that should never really happen. My point is while I see your point, personally to me Navigation is just too common to really justify using Premiere Riker just because of that one skill. But to each their own in things like this.
frakkingoff wrote:Is FC Riker's double leadership supposed to be an in-joke about Frakes directing the movie? Because I can't think of an in-universe reason for his First Contact persona getting a Leadership upgrade.

Anyway, I agree - I would almost exclusively use the Premiere version over the FC version. Unless I was building an Ent-E [EE] deck, of course.
That's always been the assumption. He's not the first to get a skill/skill boost for no reason. There are a lot characters, especially one off ones, that get more skills than proven for the sake of this or that usually gameplay. Still doesn't make it seem any less out of place though.

Well to each their own, in the end I see no reason to choose Premiere over First Contact. But we've already established different playstyles for different people.
Jono wrote:Premiere Riker also doesn't break [TNG] [WC] cards
You're right, in this instance the choice is clear. But me, if I have my way I don't care about separating my cards like this, I personally don't care for it. After all by this logic FC Riker doesn't break Federation Flagship: Relaunched making the choice clear.
Last edited by Slayer07 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#434918
Pants o.t. Tal Shiar wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:I've used the FC EE occasionally because it's easier to staff, and there are some games where guaranteed Turn 1 staffing is just crucial.

The CoC EE is good, and could be made too good if a bunch of [EE] personnel eventually get made. But getting all the EE guys aboard is hard and will take much of the game, there's a limited number of EE personnel, the EE has to deal with [Fed] battle restrictions, and 10-16-17 is great but not a gamebreaker, especially with such a huge investment.

There's no risk, in other words, of a Battlestar Enterprise scenario, where everyone in the deck became a contributor to base stats and they passed 30.

CoC EE is an ambitious and powerful card, but I don't think it's too good, and I'm glad Design resisted the temptation (easier back then than it is today) to stick a "(limit 5)" clause on there just to be on the safe side.

My :twocents: , anyway. Good topic!
With the Frool Rule gone, the size of the Enterprise-E is limited only by the number of copies of Jae in your deck.
I completely forgot about the Frool ruling.
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#434922
I use the CoC Riker since he downloads a draw engine, which is amazing in my [EE] deck. I combo it with cafe holoprogram and the voyager version of troi for great effect.
Last edited by Proconsul Neral on Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By HoodieDM
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#434923
In the end, the pt is still made that CoC EE is typically a better ship bc it allows either version of Riker to match. Hell it even allows William T. Riker (The Next Generation) to be matching commander if you wanted to mix EE Fed & Klingons which doesnt break FF: Relaunched with Klingon personnel who are actually Feds.

You could build a battle deck using CoC EE & IKS Pagh and Officer Exchange Program

~D
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#434937
Slayer07 wrote:
Jono wrote:Premiere Riker also doesn't break [TNG] [WC] cards
I know Continuing Mission is discarded if you play or have played a non [TNG] personnel or ship, but does this clause effect persona swapping?
In a word, no. :wink:
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