[UncleMorty]

I just came back after a long absence and I don't remember there being any banned cards when I stopped playing. Of course, Borg decks were dominant at the time.

Is there somewhere I can go that explains the justification for all the banned cards?

Are these cards banned in all formats run by the group members? If so there might be grumbling from the few die hard people I know who wold want to pay this old game again if they can't use red alert.

[Se7enofMine]

The cards are banned in official sanctioned events. If you and your group wish to use them for private friendly games, that's completely fine. My friends and I use a couple of them locally and have also banned others from play. To each their own.

As for why they are banned .. there are different reasons for each card but suffice to say that the most common is NPE - negative play experience. Some are over powered. some can be used and/or combined to lockout an opponent. Etc etc. I personally think some of them just need a bit of tweaking (errata) then can come off but thats just my opinion.

[MidnightLich]

The cards are banned in official sanctioned events. If you and your group wish to use them for private friendly games, that's completely fine. My friends and I use a couple of them locally and have also banned others from play. To each their own.

As for why they are banned .. there are different reasons for each card but suffice to say that the most common is NPE - negative play experience. Some are over powered. some can be used and/or combined to lockout an opponent. Etc etc. I personally think some of them just need a bit of tweaking (errata) then can come off but thats just my opinion.

To be perfectly clear, they are banned in sanctioned tournaments using the Official Tournament Format (OTF) rules. This is the format that has been largely responsible for reviving the game, as it adds some new rules and tweaks (and yes, bans cards) to keep the game focused on fun competition and not power escalation. You can see the OTF Rules linked on our front page, on the left side.

In other formats, including Open, those rules and the ban list does not apply. The only exception is Raise the Stakes, which was banned by Decipher almost immediately.

As for why cards are banned, there isn't a definitive list. The majority of the cards on the OTF Ban List were added there years ago. Our Errata Team is always going through the list, looking for cards to grant amnesty to (remove them from the list), or ways to fix the most abusive aspects of the cards. An upcoming batch of errata looks to do both of those things, and trim the number of banned cards somewhat.

So if you want to play with all the cards, mission stealing, and no seed limits, Open is the format for you. Which is great, because we'd love to see more people playing open. OTF is what we use for all of our big events, so it's good to play a bit of if you ever plan on attending a Trek Masters, Nationals, Continental, or World championship.

I will say that over the years, the game has added a lot of new play engines and card drawing, so the need to use Red Alert is much lower than it was when the game first came out. The days of "play 1, draw 1" are long past, and most decks these days can easily get to "play 3, draw 3" each turn - if not more.

Welcome back! Let us know if there is anything else we can answer for you.

-crp

[BCSWowbagger]

Several Ref cards are banned from OTF because they conflict with OTF Rules. Like, the OTF rule on bonus points already replicates what Intermix Ratio does and makes it a rule, so Intermix Ratio should not then be played. That covers... hm... Fair Play, General Quarters, Scanner Interference (holdover from when Scan and Full Planet Scan were banned), Shape-Shift Inhibitor, The Big Picture, In The Zone, and You Are A Monument. Most of those cards are still (obviously) needed in Open format, where the OTF Rules don't apply (and no cards are banned except Raise the Stakes).

A few bans are holdovers from the Holy Hexany, a now-defunct strategy for deck manipulation that led to one-turn games (where turns lasted 30 minutes). That covers... All Threes, Data, Keep Dealing, Palor Toff (I think?), and Smooth as an Android's Bottom.

What Does God Need With A Starship? was banned not because it was overpowered, but because Design was frustrated having to design around it.

Raise the Stakes was banned because it's illegal gambling, same reason it's always been banned, even from Decipher days.

Terraforming Station is banned from official tournaments because it makes very little sense in the official tournament context.

So that explains... 15 bans?

The other 22 banned cards are pretty much banned because there was a consensus (at some point) that they were or are overpowered.

It's no longer clear to me that this is true of all of them (Dixon Hill seems fine, Black Hole seems fine, Subspace Schism seems fine but I really need to prove that via tests, and I suspect Romulan Minefield is fine now that IDIC: Power of the High Command has been fixed but I'm biased). At the same time, there are a couple that are clearly wayyyyy good (Horga'hn, Distortion of Space/Time Continuum).

There's one or two that are banned even though the core concept is fine because of some clever abuse someone came up with that nobody's figured out how to fix yet. For example, Sherlock Holmes: "drawing up" to match opponent's hand size is not a problem, but draws can be converted to downloads, which, in conjunction with Tribunal of Q, means you can convert a single card draw with Holmes to playing every single Ref card in the game in a single action and you get a card draw at the end.

[Boffo97]

Are the most current errata required in Open?

Or is Open so rare at any kind of sanctioned events that it's really up to the players involved whether they want to use errata'ed cards or cards as originally written?

[AllenGould]

Don't think of them as banned. Think of them as having entered the "Hall of Fame" and retired.

[BCSWowbagger]

Are the most current errata required in Open?

Or is Open so rare at any kind of sanctioned events that it's really up to the players involved whether they want to use errata'ed cards or cards as originally written?

Organized Play Guide says "yes." Every Open-format OTSD/Cube Draft event I've ever attended says, "Screw the OPG, play 'em as written."

Open is always a consideration in the errata process, though. It's why Writ of Accountability hasn't simply been errata'd to remove all its text after "Once per game, downloads an FCA personnel; discard incident." OTF needs the FCA download, but the rest of the text has become an active hindrance to certain things Design wants to do. But Open needs all the text. So we're stuck.

[Se7enofMine]

Shoot. Yes, I meant in OTF. I always forget about the others cause I never play those formats.

My bad.

[OKCoyote]

Are the most current errata required in Open?

Or is Open so rare at any kind of sanctioned events that it's really up to the players involved whether they want to use errata'ed cards or cards as originally written?

Organized Play Guide says "yes." Every Open-format OTSD/Cube Draft event I've ever attended says, "Screw the OPG, play 'em as written."

In Open constructed, current errata should be respected, as you can print the correct wording. In Open sealed events such as OTSD, you usually play as written so players don't have to memorize dozens of cards' new wordings they can't see. (Except for online events, where card images have current errata.)

I do now make an exception for Spatial Rift in Warp Speed events, as that card is too broken pre-errata!

[BCSWowbagger]

In Open constructed, current errata should be respected, as you can print the correct wording. In Open sealed events such as OTSD, you usually play as written so players don't have to memorize dozens of cards' new wordings they can't see. (Except for online events, where card images have current errata.)

I mean, this makes sense to me, but the OPG doesn't make any exceptions to errata for sealed, so it's technically illegal even though widespread.

[Mogor]

In Open constructed, current errata should be respected, as you can print the correct wording. In Open sealed events such as OTSD, you usually play as written so players don't have to memorize dozens of cards' new wordings they can't see. (Except for online events, where card images have current errata.)

I mean, this makes sense to me, but the OPG doesn't make any exceptions to errata for sealed, so it's technically illegal even though widespread.

As long as its posted to the event well ahead of time, its been considered legit. At least thats the impression I have got and the how things have been going forever

[UncleMorty]

I was just reading a lot of comments about how personnel that were not free to play were considered a hinderance in gameplay many times.

this to me seems like a damn fine reason to unban/erratta red alert, as it being missing disadvantages all other personnel cards and seems to make people lean on player created cards.

maybe just not allowing ships to be included in it would be a huge difference, idk.

[nobthehobbit]

In Open constructed, current errata should be respected, as you can print the correct wording. In Open sealed events such as OTSD, you usually play as written so players don't have to memorize dozens of cards' new wordings they can't see. (Except for online events, where card images have current errata.)

I mean, this makes sense to me, but the OPG doesn't make any exceptions to errata for sealed, so it's technically illegal even though widespread.

As long as its posted to the event well ahead of time, its been considered legit. At least thats the impression I have got and the how things have been going forever

IMO it's the principle of "let the players play".

[HoodieDM]

I was just reading a lot of comments about how personnel that were not free to play were considered a hinderance in gameplay many times.

this to me seems like a damn fine reason to unban/erratta red alert, as it being missing disadvantages all other personnel cards and seems to make people lean on player created cards.

maybe just not allowing ships to be included in it would be a huge difference, idk.

I'm sure at some point Red Alert will be unbanned with errata. Just waiting on the errata team to do it

Also, lots of personnel/ships that aren't "free to play" in a person's deck play engine(s) still make it into their decks. They might just limit those number of normal card play personnel/ships so they're not stuck with a handful of them in case of a bad draw.

And alas, almost every type of personnel fits into some sort of play engine anymore. It might just be limited to how much "cross over" the deck can handle. This is actually why limitations are good. Think about it, some of the best personnel are Federation and there are a ton of them. To be able to just drop every personnel in 1 turn is idiotic (sorry that's just my opinion). A lot of folks already hate the "free report salad" decks out there that spew 5-6 personnel per turn anyways. 2-3 personnel per turn is a more adequate solution IMO and presents a healthier game, short term and long term.

~D

[bhosp]

Don't think of them as banned. Think of them as having entered the "Hall of Fame" and retired.

This is a bad take. The OTF ban list and the HoF list have different purposes.

The OTF ban list is sort of a “holding cell”/todo list for the 1E errata team—they’re cards you hope/expect to see again someday in OTF once they’ve been reconfigured to work with the Holodeck Safety Protocols on.

The Second Edition Hall of Fame format list is intended to mainly be “cards we’re just tired of seeing all the time”. That’s why we vote on it instead of letting Rules/Design/OP decide.