[SAM2000]

Hi,

If you have The Beating Heart in play and you encounter a dilemma which causes damage to your ship, which flips a tactic that causes a death, are they "being killed by a dilemma" for the purposes of The Beating Heart?

Thanks

The Beating Heart

[BCSWowbagger]

No, they're being killed by a Tactic.

Come to think of it, "by a dilemma" is a very 2E phrasing that we should probably avoid except where vital. It simplifies things in 2E, but tends to complicate them in 1E.

[Armus]

No, they're being killed by a Tactic.

Come to think of it, "by a dilemma" is a very 2E phrasing that we should probably avoid except where vital. It simplifies things in 2E, but tends to complicate them in 1E.

Mona Lisa sends her regards.

[frakkingoff]

No, they're being killed by a Tactic.

By that logic, you can never earn a Latinum Payoff if you're using a Battle Bridge Door, because it's a tactic that ultimately destroys the enemy ship, not your ship.

[Mogh, Son Of Worf]

No, they're being killed by a Tactic.

Come to think of it, "by a dilemma" is a very 2E phrasing that we should probably avoid except where vital. It simplifies things in 2E, but tends to complicate them in 1E.

I like the phrasing.
There are a lot of ways to kill people outside of dilemmas. I like that there are cards which protect from death in general and cards that protect from specific sources like dilemmas.

[HoodieDM]

No, they're being killed by a Tactic.

By that logic, you can never earn a Latinum Payoff if you're using a Battle Bridge Door, because it's a tactic that ultimately destroys the enemy ship, not your ship.

Brings up a good point....

~D

[SAM2000]

I would say it’s a sub action of the dilemma resolution, so ultimately it’s the dilemma causing it! That’s also in keeping with the theme of the card.

[BCSWowbagger]

Mona Lisa sends her regards.

I mean, yeah, what'd it take, five years for Rules to decide how this card works? Assigning responsibility for things exploding is not something this game does well. Mogh is right that "killed by a dilemma" is interesting, but my point is that it's messy and thus best avoided.

I would say it’s a sub action of the dilemma resolution, so ultimately it’s the dilemma causing it! That’s also in keeping with the theme of the card.

It's also a sub-action of the mission attempt, but we wouldn't say that the mission destroyed your ship.

By that logic, you can never earn a Latinum Payoff if you're using a Battle Bridge Door, because it's a tactic that ultimately destroys the enemy ship, not your ship.

I'm inclined to agree; you can't use Latinum Payoff if you have a BBD.

I could be wrong. Or this could be a hole in the current rules. (Hopefully not one that's as hard to fix as Mona Lisa.)

I'm hoping one of the other clever rulesy people will weigh in with a Glossary text I missed.

[SAM2000]

I was playing Niall when my ship hit the dilemma. We both scratched our heads but went with it in the end allowing the beating heart to work.

[frakkingoff]

I could be wrong. Or this could be a hole in the current rules. (Hopefully not one that's as hard to fix as Mona Lisa.)

If so, then the hole needs to be plugged.

When a tactic destroys a ship, then the ship that shot it in battle also is responsible for destroying the ship.

When a tactic kills a personnel, then the dilemma that placed the tactic is also responsible for killing that personnel.

It's common sense, and if the rules don't support that, then they need to be amended so that they do.

[prylardurden]

By that logic, you can never earn a Latinum Payoff if you're using a Battle Bridge Door, because it's a tactic that ultimately destroys the enemy ship, not your ship.

I'm inclined to agree; you can't use Latinum Payoff if you have a BBD.

I could be wrong. Or this could be a hole in the current rules. (Hopefully not one that's as hard to fix as Mona Lisa.)

I'm hoping one of the other clever rulesy people will weigh in with a Glossary text I missed.

You technically can use Latinum Payoff if you have a BBD. Step 4 of Battle - Ship says that the player with the BBD *may* draw tactics. If you were only using the BBD for dilemma purposes, you could still get a payoff (if you can win without a tactic).

[bhosp]

By that logic, you can never earn a Latinum Payoff if you're using a Battle Bridge Door, because it's a tactic that ultimately destroys the enemy ship, not your ship.

I'm inclined to agree; you can't use Latinum Payoff if you have a BBD.

I could be wrong. Or this could be a hole in the current rules. (Hopefully not one that's as hard to fix as Mona Lisa.)

I'm hoping one of the other clever rulesy people will weigh in with a Glossary text I missed.

You technically can use Latinum Payoff if you have a BBD. Step 4 of Battle - Ship says that the player with the BBD *may* draw tactics. If you were only using the BBD for dilemma purposes, you could still get a payoff (if you can win without a tactic).

You still have to tactics as damage markers to destroy the ship though.

[Boffo97]

Better begin the pfti summoning ritual...

*starts tearing WB95 Mendons in half*

[pfti]

Better begin the pfti summoning ritual...

*starts tearing WB95 Mendons in half*

Not Chatoc BRO!

Ill get the RC on this

[Armus]

Better begin the pfti summoning ritual...

*starts tearing WB95 Mendons in half*

Not Chatoc BRO!

Ill get the RC on this

I thought Mendon was 2 Chaotic 2 Bro.

Mordock is the OG Chaotic Bro.

Season 1 Represent!