[DarkSabre]

Treaty: Federation/Romulan/Klingon

I have always loved this card but I haven't used it in ages. Why? Because of the issue with the fact that you cannot use a side deck with it.

Now this was all find & good during the Decipher Era when Q-Tents and Q-Flashes were the only ones around. However Q-Tents are used only for downloads (mostly) by many, we have now the dilemma side deck, we got tribbles, and of course the lovely battle bridge.

So; curious as to having a discussion on what people think of the card & how crazy would it cause the game to be if you could use a side deck with the treaty.

Because the only other solution is to seed 3 open diplomatic relations so you can seed the appropriate treaties.

[AllenGould]

You're getting three treaties for the price of one *and* removing multiple battle restrictions. Not getting side decks might be too weak of a cost, honestly.

[LORE]

You're getting three treaties for the price of one *and* removing multiple battle restrictions. Not getting side decks might be too weak of a cost, honestly.

+1

This is a sealed deck card from 1998. Nothing more nothing less. Uses in 2018 for the OTF format just isn't applicable.

[eberlems]

My guess, you can't seed it without Open Diplomatic Relations and then it uses 2 slots.
Also 2 The Devil can mess up the deck quite well.

[AllenGould]

My guess, you can't seed it without Open Diplomatic Relations and then it uses 2 slots.
Also 2 The Devil can mess up the deck quite well.

None of the three treaties that Triple replaces seeds, so (assuming that you can still seed multiple ODRs to get multiple treaties) you're actually saving four seed slots. (Plus whatever you use to get the equivalent "remove battle restrictions").

[BCSWowbagger]

As Q Tents become less important (it's happening!), this card gets better. You're never going to want to use it for ship battle, because of the whole no Battle Bridge, but you can play a good deck nowadays without a Tent, and these three affiliations are pretty good.

In my mind, though, Combined Task Force is really the 2018 version of this card.

[AllenGould]

As Q Tents become less important (it's happening!), this card gets better. You're never going to want to use it for ship battle, because of the whole no Battle Bridge, but you can play a good deck nowadays without a Tent, and these three affiliations are pretty good.

My sense of the battle side is that you either use it for swarm (where the BB bonus isn't as helpful), or just to allow incidental battle (i.e. "aw, that widdle ship is all alone.. boom")

[DarkSabre]

The Triple Treaty also stops you from being able to use Q-Tent Civil War, so if someone wanted to be able to use that to make a Q Ref side deck that would be a bit of an issue also. I still feel the meta needs the Ref cards unfortunately.

It costs 2 seed slots and the devil can mess up the deck. So you would want to ideally have a couple of backup plans that would probably involve some more seed slots.

Yes those affiliations together (I'd argue that Romulan & Vulcans is far better than any other combination of affiliations than even this treaty) are good but this card doesn't allow any free plays. No extra card draws. It just allows them to mix. To get card draws, free plays, etc you need to seed even more cards.

I still think Combined Task Force should of been this card redone but with only & side deck restriction removed.

[DarkSabre]

As Q Tents become less important (it's happening!), this card gets better. You're never going to want to use it for ship battle, because of the whole no Battle Bridge, but you can play a good deck nowadays without a Tent, and these three affiliations are pretty good.

In my mind, though, Combined Task Force is really the 2018 version of this card.

I dont play against many people who go without a Q Tent. They use it as a what if download dumping ground usually.

Cluttering a deck with downloads can kill a deck and make ti unplayable. It can be done, no question, but at what cost of efficiency against decks that are extremely speedy or can kamikaze against dilemmas without regard to their personnel (my last deck is quite guilty of the last one. Holograms are amazing in space)

[DarkSabre]

You're getting three treaties for the price of one *and* removing multiple battle restrictions. Not getting side decks might be too weak of a cost, honestly.

+1

This is a sealed deck card from 1998. Nothing more nothing less. Uses in 2018 for the OTF format just isn't applicable.

Like the other Sealed Deck cards aren't useable/used in OTF? Many are and I do promise a Memory Wipe deck will come along one day from me.

Its two seeds to get it out and that doesn't count making sure you have a contingency for the devil.

Combined Task Force, while more limited, gives a free card play & can get the treaty out using one seed card.

[BCSWowbagger]

The Triple Treaty also stops you from being able to use Q-Tent Civil War, so if someone wanted to be able to use that to make a Q Ref side deck that would be a bit of an issue also. I still feel the meta needs the Ref cards unfortunately.

What for?

Honest question; I've only included a Ref pile in a non-Borg deck I think... one time in the past year?

As Q Tents become less important (it's happening!), this card gets better. You're never going to want to use it for ship battle, because of the whole no Battle Bridge, but you can play a good deck nowadays without a Tent, and these three affiliations are pretty good.

In my mind, though, Combined Task Force is really the 2018 version of this card.

I dont play against many people who go without a Q Tent. They use it as a what if download dumping ground usually.

Yes, people are afraid to go without downloads. Sometimes they're right to be! Lots of decks really do need reliable downloads to work properly! I don't use Civil War anymore, but I do have a basic Tent in most of my decks.

But I also see a good few decks that would run better if their players just let go of the Q's Tent crutch. If you're playing a triple treaty (particularly a non- triple treaty), you should be okay without 'em. Won't be the easiest deck in the world to build, but you're getting three treaties for the price of one, so that's fair.

[OKCoyote]

Speaking of Combined Task Force, I just noticed it in this deck.

As it's clearly not a deck, I assume it's just in there as a Reshape download to get the Treaty into play using only one seed. However, there doesn't appear to be a way to discard it, leaving no way to play all the Non-Aligned personnel in the deck.

(Sorry for the minor thread derailment.)

[PantsOfTheTalShiar]

I had the Tri Treaty in a Diplomatic Conference deck I was working on, but I lost enthusiasm for that deck because 1) I realized that my opponent was just going to stick Dead End at the Conference; and 2) multiple other people in my play group started playing Diplomatic Conference decks.

Six seed slots for three treaties seems bad. (Though you can in fact do this, even though it looks like you run into the cumulative rule, the Glossary entry for Open Diplomatic Relations says you can.) The alternative I'd use is Open Diplomatic Relations -> Rom/Kli, Facilitate Peace Talks -> Fed/Kli, then stock a bunch of Holodeck Doors and use the first one to get Ambassador Tomalak -> Fed/Rom.

[BCSWowbagger]

Hunh. That's a good point, OKC.

Earlier iterations of that deck (7 kinds of smoke, 8 kinds of smoke, and 9 kinds of smoke) did not include Combined Task Force, and they all wiped the floor with everybody, but it does look to me -- just going by the decklist, I wasn't at the event or anything -- as though 10 kinds of smoke involved a misreading of CTF.

@Pants: It's okay, you can play DC now, I've been too scared to play it again ever since my surprise Illegitimate Leader/Diplomatic Conference mirror match against Commander Joe.

[Hoss-Drone]

Hunh. That's a good point, OKC.

Earlier iterations of that deck (7 kinds of smoke, 8 kinds of smoke, and 9 kinds of smoke) did not include Combined Task Force, and they all wiped the floor with everybody, but it does look to me -- just going by the decklist, I wasn't at the event or anything -- as though 10 kinds of smoke involved a misreading of CTF.

@Pants: It's okay, you can play DC now, I've been too scared to play it again ever since my surprise Illegitimate Leader/Diplomatic Conference mirror match against Commander Joe.

Yea, I let somebody (not kris) talk me into getting the 1 more dilemma instead of just sticking with the odr layout to also hedge against devil (which Ken did have).... long story short - honest mistake and literally no one caught it and it hurt me more than helped anyway.