[geraldkw]

I am reading through this and I was reminded that missions without a point box can only seed in the Alpha Quadrant. Is there any clear cut reason for this, other than tradition? Why not just let them seed in any quadrant? As can be told from the large number of missions taking place at nebulas, they are abundant in the Delta Quadrant, and all of the quadrants clearly have lots of empty space. Is there one of these I am not thinking of that would be broken if played on a non-alpha spaceline?

[AllenGould]

I believe that was just removing a weird rule, and putting us back at the default of "if it doesn't have a a symbol it lives in the Alpha Quadrant".

[BCSWowbagger]

The only missions without point boxes (assuming my search of the site got everything) are:

Nebula
Space

I don't see any problem with these showing up in other quadrants balance-wise, and it makes TrekSense. (Also would make both way more playable.)

The problem from a rules standpoint, I think, is that the rule right now is "no icon = alpha quadrant." This change would make it "a point box with no icon = alpha quadrant; no point box and no icon = any quadrant." Understood in that way, the change is more complicated. But it might be possible to find a way to reframe it in a way that's equally simple.

Any thoughts? I think if we can hammer out a half-decent wording here, we could bring it to the Rules Committee as a proposal. (And then it would sit there until Project Delenn is done, because they're real crowded right now.)

[Armus]

I am reading through this and I was reminded that missions without a point box can only seed in the Alpha Quadrant. Is there any clear cut reason for this, other than tradition? Why not just let them seed in any quadrant? As can be told from the large number of missions taking place at nebulas, they are abundant in the Delta Quadrant, and all of the quadrants clearly have lots of empty space. Is there one of these I am not thinking of that would be broken if played on a non-alpha spaceline?

At one point long ago they could be seeded in any quadrant. At some point* the rule was changed to missions are seeded in their matching quadrant as delineated by their presence or absence of a quadrant icon.

Since all of the non-point-box missions lack quadrant icons, they're all Alpha quadrant missions by default.

*I vaguely recall a strategy of seeding 2 ❖ Space in the Gamma quadrant and dropping a Black Hole over there then throwing all of the opponent's ships over there with multiples of Wormhole until they run out of ships.

[AllenGould]

Or, we could just make a ❖ Space.

I'm trying to remember the root problem, and I think it had to do with the mission still being Alpha even though it wasn't in the Alpha Quadrant. (Which I suppose makes the Real Root Problem that "no icon" = Alpha)

Although reading Armus' post makes me think he has the right of the original reason it came up.

[Iron Prime]

Or, we could just make a ❖ Space.

I'm trying to remember the root problem, and I think it had to do with the mission still being Alpha even though it wasn't in the Alpha Quadrant. (Which I suppose makes the Real Root Problem that "no icon" = Alpha)

Although reading Armus' post makes me think he has the right of the original reason it came up.

That really feels like the easiest solution in a way. Slip it in to a Starter on some future product...

[AllenGould]

Or, we could just make a ❖ Space.
That really feels like the easiest solution in a way. Slip it in to a Starter on some future product...

Well, you'd have six cards off the bat (Space & Nebula x3 quadrants), so that's either 2/3 of the way to a nine-card boutique or 1/3 to an eighteen-card.

[Armus]

Or, we could just make a ❖ Space.
That really feels like the easiest solution in a way. Slip it in to a Starter on some future product...

Well, you'd have six cards off the bat (Space & Nebula x3 quadrants), so that's either 2/3 of the way to a nine-card boutique or 1/3 to an eighteen-card.

These plus four new missions per non-Alpha quadrant would make a great boutique set!

[BCSWowbagger]

...only none of them would be playable. Space only works as a card if you use it to mess up your opponent's spaceline. Its biggest weakness right now is that your opponent might not be playing Alpha Quadrant, in which case it's a dead seed for you. But if you create Space for every quadrant, then you just have to guess which quadrant most of your opponents will be playing... and then you'll end up using Alpha Quadrant Space anyway.

I'll look into the rules history on this. I have tons of rules documents from Back In The Day but didn't play competitively and thus never kept up with the nuances like this. I'll try and figure out when it was changed.

Anyway, if the main problem was Black Hole, I think maybe we've solved it by banning Black Hole.

[geraldkw]

The next question I have is about mis-seeds and Buried Alive, I understand BA turns the mission into a planet+space mission meaning you need an away team and a ship with matching personnel aboard to attempt it. Does this mean I can seed space dilemmas after it and they are no longer mis-seeds? I think it probably needs a glossary entry, although maybe when I get to the part about mission attempts in the rulebook all will become clear.

Edit: I found it, only dilemmas revealed under the wrong mission type are mis-seeds.

[geraldkw]

I tend to think ❖ missions should be allowed to be played in any quadrant also, but maybe there are some reasons that won't work.

[frakkingoff]

Wouldn't it be easier to errata Space and Nebula to have text saying "May seed in any quadrant?"

[AllenGould]

...only none of them would be playable.

Sure they would. You put them in your mission deck, they go on the table...

Now, I'd agree they wouldn't be terribly *good* (although I could see Nebula seeing some play in other quadrants), but then OG Space pretty much exists to fuel Black Holes and break up regions. But it solves the underlying problem (and some designer will eventually invent a reason to use them I'm sure.)

[BCSWowbagger]

it solves the underlying problem

Just seems like there's a vastly easier solution to solving the underlying problem that leaves you with more competitive cards and fewer wasted boutique card slots.

Two, in fact: frakkingoff suggested errata, which would also help these two cards. (But I like the idea of opening up greater design space for quadrantless missions without point boxes.)

[geraldkw]

My next thought is that rotation damage markers should be treated the same tactic damage markers for repair purposes, taking 1 turn to repair.

Reasons:

1. Simplifies rules about repairs.
2. Encourages using a BBSD.

In sealed deck or similar situations where BBSD doesn't make sense, it's not going to matter that much if damage is repaired quicker, it might actually help balance the game for people who didn't manage to pull as many ships because people with lots of ships won't wait around for repairs, they'll get on a different ship.