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 Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements 

Which set of requirements should we use for Excalbia?
Poll ended at Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:33 am
(Honor x4 + no Treachery + Integrity>40 ) OR (Treachery x4 + no Honor + Integrity<17) 12%  12%  [ 10 ]
Leadership x3 + Diplomacy + (staffed ship in orbit OR Guramba + CUNNING>37) 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Leadership > opponent's Leadership on Planet + (Honor x4 + no Treachery OR Treachery x4 + no Honor) 11%  11%  [ 9 ]
A personnel with both Leadership x2 and (Honor OR Treachery) 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
Leadership x2 + (Treachery x4 OR Honor x4 OR Guramba) + (CUNNING>35 OR any personnel with Excalbia in lore) 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Leadership + Diplomacy + Anthropology + (Honor x3 OR Treachery x3 OR Guramba) 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Honor x4 + no Treachery OR Treachery x4 + no Honor OR Geology x4 + no Honor + no Treachery 18%  18%  [ 15 ]
Honor x4 and discard 2 Treachery personnel OR Treachery x4 and discard 2 Honor personnel 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
A personnel with both Leadership x2 and (Honor OR Treachery) + attribute>X 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Anthropology x2 + Exobiology x2 + (Honor x3 OR Treachery x3) 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
no any Intelligence + (Honor + no Treachery OR Treachery + no Honor) 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Diplomacy + Geology + (four leaders with Honor OR four leaders with Treachery) 26%  26%  [ 21 ]
Total votes : 82

 Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements 
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Acting Director of First Edition
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Post Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
Welcome to step 7 of Will of the Collective VI! In the previous step, we received nominations for twelve (12) different requirements for our Excablia mission. Since we had fewer nominations than the poll software here can support, I did not cut any. Instead, I spent some time make sure they all fit on the template and slightly adjusting the text to meet design standards.

Your job now is to vote on the requirements that you want to appear on our mission. This poll will be up through Wednesday, February 13th, giving you a full forty-eight (48) hours to cast your votes. Each of you will be able to vote for up to two choices, and you can change your vote at any time until the poll closes.

If we don't have a clear winner, there will be a runoff vote posted after this poll closes. A runoff will be triggered if the top two choices are tied, or if their combined total number of votes is less than half the total number of votes. Otherwise, there won't be a runoff vote and the winner will move on to the next step. If we do have a runoff vote, it will be a quick, 24-hour poll. So vote, then feel free to reply to this thread with your votes and try to sway others to your side!

In the mean time, after you've voted, head over to the character voting step to decide what special skill of download - if any - will end up on Yarnek!

Happy voting!

-crp

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Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:33 am
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
I like most of these options actually. Going to have to think on this one...

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Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
Just thinking of the angle wherein a crew would visit or re-visit Excalbia, given the modern timeframe of the mission. With Geology in particular, it seems that the crew is unaware of the Excalbians' nature going in, perhaps implying that it's not the Federation attempting this mission. (I mean, maybe it's a survey team going for resource rights, but that was my initial impression.) So for the crew to get the appropriate value out of this mission, perhaps they have to first figure out who they're really dealing with.

Though, I'm also thinking that the Klingons probably send in a team every year to do glorious battle. The most treacherous villains (from their point of view) all together, on demand, and not holograms either! If the Excalbians keep staging these plays they're all going to die.


Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:27 pm
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
I like the "Treachery + no Honor OR Honor + no Treachery" type ones.

"no any Intelligence + (Honor + no Treachery OR Treachery + no Honor)" makes a lot of sense to me because it cuts out the excessive Treachery AQ playing mechanics. The amount of Honor or Treachery they actually need should be balanced to the points... don't we need more for 40 points? Will these skill selections still be balanced after?

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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
Question: why was my discard suggestion changed?

Honor x4 + discard 2 Treachery became 2 Treachery Personnel. Why was it decided you couldn't solve by discarding a Treachery x2 personnel. That would fit with the whole point of the story where killing Colonel Green caused the other bad guys to flee.

It's not necessarily bad as is, I was just curious why it got curated the way it did.

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Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:50 pm
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
Armus wrote:
Question: why was my discard suggestion changed?

Honor x4 + discard 2 Treachery became 2 Treachery Personnel. Why was it decided you couldn't solve by discarding a Treachery x2 personnel. That would fit with the whole point of the story where killing Colonel Green caused the other bad guys to flee.

It's not necessarily bad as is, I was just curious why it got curated the way it did.


Hmmm. It wasn't an unintentional change. Most of the missions we have that discard a personnel say "discard a/an X personnel" so that was the model I was going for. I'm not sure those missions ever accounted for multiple levels of skills though. I suspect what it should say then is "discard personnel with 2 Treachery" so you can discard 1 or 2 personnel.

TL;DR: There was no intent to change.

-crp

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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
MidnightLich wrote:
Armus wrote:
Question: why was my discard suggestion changed?

Honor x4 + discard 2 Treachery became 2 Treachery Personnel. Why was it decided you couldn't solve by discarding a Treachery x2 personnel. That would fit with the whole point of the story where killing Colonel Green caused the other bad guys to flee.

It's not necessarily bad as is, I was just curious why it got curated the way it did.


Hmmm. It wasn't an unintentional change. Most of the missions we have that discard a personnel say "discard a/an X personnel" so that was the model I was going for. I'm not sure those missions ever accounted for multiple levels of skills though. I suspect what it should say then is "discard personnel with 2 Treachery" so you can discard 1 or 2 personnel.

TL;DR: There was no intent to change.

-crp


I was templating Investigate Legend which in practical terms requires discarding two personnel, since nobody has native Youth x2 (though I remember seeing a PAQ-era deck that solo-solved by discarding Lal to minimize the impact of the planet cloaking.) #oldschooltech

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Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:02 pm
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
What I don't like about "Honor x4 and discard 2 Treachery personnel OR Treachery x4 and discard 2 Honor personnel " is that it doesn't make much sense from a mission perspective.

You basically have to provide a bunch of heroes AND a few villains as sacrificial lambs (or a bunch of villains AND a few heroes as sacrificial lambs). So rather than demonstrating FOR GOOD or FOR EVIL against the opposing recreations the Excalbians conjure up for you, you're sort of demonstrating both - but in a way that is clearly biased, making the whole demonstration a fraud for the Excalbians.

It's like a Straw Man Excalbian Contest.


Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
Also, I really don't think we should have picked the Native character until the mission requirements were picked. Or we should not have picked the mission requirements until the Native character was complete.

It's quite possible we'll end up with a native who has no skills relevant to the mission (nullifying their point bonus).


Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
A thought from a gameplay perspective: Honor x4 or Treachery x4 would seem to undercut Preserver Obelisk, as it's tempting to use AMS instead. In contrast some choices, with the way they're worded, would at least give a theoretical advantage to the Obelisk (and still hit the Honor/Treachery note).


Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:43 am
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
frakkingoff wrote:
Also, I really don't think we should have picked the Native character until the mission requirements were picked. Or we should not have picked the mission requirements until the Native character was complete.

It's quite possible we'll end up with a native who has no skills relevant to the mission (nullifying their point bonus).


The schedule was designed so that we don't pick skills for the personnel until after the mission requirements are picked, specifically to allow the personnel to get some of those skills. Also, it's worth noting that Preserver Obelisk doesn't require using skills to score the 5 points, only helping contribute to the mission. Adding an attribute requirement, for example, is more than enough for the "native" to get the +5 points.

-crp

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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
I liked the last one. So I went with that.

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Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:00 am
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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
MidnightLich wrote:
The schedule was designed so that we don't pick skills for the personnel until after the mission requirements are picked, specifically to allow the personnel to get some of those skills.


Yes, but the problem is picking the personnel already has also limited the skills our "native" can have, based on Trek-sense.

Some of the front-runner requirements are skills that I don't think are valid skills to give to Yamek, based on Trek-sense.

Quote:
Also, it's worth noting that Preserver Obelisk doesn't require using skills to score the 5 points, only helping contribute to the mission. Adding an attribute requirement, for example, is more than enough for the "native" to get the +5 points.


Ok, so let's say Yamek doesn't have Honor and one of the mission requirements is explicitly "No honor." Can Yamek "help" by simply being present and contributing "No honor"?


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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
frakkingoff wrote:
Yes, but the problem is picking the personnel already has also limited the skills our "native" can have, based on Trek-sense.

Of the four tied for first (at the time of this post), two require Geology and one has attributes requirements. As a living rock who couldn't figure out the difference between "good" and "evil," I could easily see Yamek having Geology and neither Honor nor Treachery.

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Post Re: Step 7: WotC6 - Vote on Mission Requirements
GooeyChewie wrote:
frakkingoff wrote:
Yes, but the problem is picking the personnel already has also limited the skills our "native" can have, based on Trek-sense.

Of the four tied for first (at the time of this post), two require Geology and one has attributes requirements. As a living rock who couldn't figure out the difference between "good" and "evil," I could easily see Yamek having Geology and neither Honor nor Treachery.

:thumbsup:

Actually, I think he should have like Geology x2 or x3 and then I ended up changing my one pick to be "If Excalbia completed: Honor x2 OR Treachery x2." because I think that would fit best. Once the mission is solved, he gets the benefit choosing. In the mean time, he doesn't know what to pick AND he doesn't hinder the mission attempt. I think everyone should go pick that ability. I think it makes the most Trek sense and would be ideal.

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Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:08 am
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