[AllenGould]

I wonder... could we just add a last step for "everything that didn't state another step"? (The "vowel step" - Incident, Events, and Objectives. )

Look at it this way: if this change goes through, the "facility phase" becomes the "everything else" step.

I was thinking of adding it after facilities. (Because there are some sequencing issues between facilities and cards as well.)

[Se7enofMine]

I can see the need for this, particularly, as Lore mentioned, in specifics instances for gamesmanship.

But as also mentioned, with batch seeding, I think this is less of an issue

Having said that, I voted for all formats. Honestly, the game s longevity rests, in my opinion, with design and expanding the card pool. So whatever furthers this is what I will support.

[Comicbookhero]

I’ve always thought this was the way it should be so I voted for all formats.

[Takket]

huh... i just assumed because of the way the OTF rules were written with "everything else" that you couldn't really do that anyway! The glossary allows it but the OTF rules don't say anything about seeding anything you want before the "everything else" part of the dilemma phase, and subsequent facility phase. I do recall "outseeding" being a thing "back in the day". It usually involved holding self seeds back, usually a Barcley's Proto Disease you wanted to encounter first for a quick 10 points. The batch seeding rules where you put self seeds on top of the stack to be encountered last put an end to that.

Also you would sometimes hold one dilemma back to see where someone wanted to stick their artifact so you could add an extra dilemma there. Again the batch seeding rules already makes that impossible.

What I would like to do is cluster all my missions together in some decks, but a good player should see what you are trying to do and just start droppnig their own / /etc to stop you.

That being said............ since this changes very little anyway................ just make it official in all formats. much easier to explain the rules when they are consistant across formats.

[DarkSabre]

huh... i just assumed because of the way the OTF rules were written with "everything else" that you couldn't really do that anyway! The glossary allows it but the OTF rules don't say anything about seeding anything you want before the "everything else" part of the dilemma phase, and subsequent facility phase. I do recall "outseeding" being a thing "back in the day". It usually involved holding self seeds back, usually a Barcley's Proto Disease you wanted to encounter first for a quick 10 points. The batch seeding rules where you put self seeds on top of the stack to be encountered last put an end to that.

Also you would sometimes hold one dilemma back to see where someone wanted to stick their artifact so you could add an extra dilemma there. Again the batch seeding rules already makes that impossible.

What I would like to do is cluster all my missions together in some decks, but a good player should see what you are trying to do and just start droppnig their own / /etc to stop you.

That being said............ since this changes very little anyway................ just make it official in all formats. much easier to explain the rules when they are consistant across formats.

Well it might make me more...strategic...in a couple of weeks

[HoodieDM]

I still think Dilemmas should be seeded last anyways.

~D

[AllenGould]

I still think Dilemmas should be seeded last anyways.

~D

Like, after facilities?

[DarkSabre]

I still think Dilemmas should be seeded last anyways.

~D

Like, after facilities?

Yeah because everyone deserves to have outpost raid placed by their outpost....


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[frakkingoff]

Yeah because everyone deserves to have outpost raid placed by their outpost....


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In principle, I agree with you.

In practice, Headquarters makes Outpost Raid useless a lot of the time anyhow.

[jrch5618]

I agree we should consider having a 5-step thing.

Doorway - Mission - Dilemma - Facility - Other.

It would make things cleaner. (I voted all formats and it seems to be the overwhelming majority.)

[DarkSabre]

Yeah because everyone deserves to have outpost raid placed by their outpost....


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In principle, I agree with you.

In practice, Headquarters makes Outpost Raid useless a lot of the time anyhow.

I was actually being sarcastic. That dilemma would be an insta-kill against speed decks so actually that would be amazing but then the rule would also make sheliak non possible to be unbanned because if knew for sure your outpost would be there then can go for it.

[AllenGould]

Yeah because everyone deserves to have outpost raid placed by their outpost....


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In principle, I agree with you.

In practice, Headquarters makes Outpost Raid useless a lot of the time anyhow.

I was actually being sarcastic. That dilemma would be an insta-kill against speed decks so actually that would be amazing but then the rule would also make sheliak non possible to be unbanned because if knew for sure your outpost would be there then can go for it.

In a world where dilemmas came after facilities you'd just end up with "thou shalt never attempt your outpost mission" gameplay, because you'd be betting that the opponent just decided not to seed one of the *many* dilemmas that are very bad to hit at an outpost.

[BCSWowbagger]

In a world where dilemmas came after facilities you'd just end up with "thou shalt never attempt your outpost mission" gameplay, because you'd be betting that the opponent just decided not to seed one of the *many* dilemmas that are very bad to hit at an outpost.

That's already close to the current state in my meta. Symbalene Blood Burn doesn't always hit, but, when it does, its text may as well say, "Plays on table. You may not play the game for four turns. May not be nullified." In a game that only lasts maybe six turns, that's far too dangerous even to risk.

[PantsOfTheTalShiar]

Wait, what exactly is the change?

A) Can't seed doorways outside of doorway phase
B) Can't seed non-doorways during doorway phase
C) Both

[geraldkw]

In a world where dilemmas came after facilities you'd just end up with "thou shalt never attempt your outpost mission" gameplay, because you'd be betting that the opponent just decided not to seed one of the *many* dilemmas that are very bad to hit at an outpost.

That's already close to the current state in my meta. Symbalene Blood Burn doesn't always hit, but, when it does, its text may as well say, "Plays on table. You may not play the game for four turns. May not be nullified." In a game that only lasts maybe six turns, that's far too dangerous even to risk.

Yeah I just realized what that card does and I'm surprised it exists. Since no one seems to be screaming for a ban or Nerf I guess it must not be that bad?

I guess the solution is two outposts or play out of hq for a while and never leave people on the Outpost while trying the mission there