[DarkSabre]

In a world where dilemmas came after facilities you'd just end up with "thou shalt never attempt your outpost mission" gameplay, because you'd be betting that the opponent just decided not to seed one of the *many* dilemmas that are very bad to hit at an outpost.

That's already close to the current state in my meta. Symbalene Blood Burn doesn't always hit, but, when it does, its text may as well say, "Plays on table. You may not play the game for four turns. May not be nullified." In a game that only lasts maybe six turns, that's far too dangerous even to risk.

Yeah I just realized what that card does and I'm surprised it exists. Since no one seems to be screaming for a ban or Nerf I guess it must not be that bad?

I guess the solution is two outposts or play out of hq for a while and never leave people on the Outpost while trying the mission there

No one is screaming about it because it hits as often as outpost raid

Also it doesn’t hurt timeline locations.

Hey design here is an idea: a seed card that allows you to target timeline locations as if they were spaceline locations...:


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[Armus]

In a world where dilemmas came after facilities you'd just end up with "thou shalt never attempt your outpost mission" gameplay, because you'd be betting that the opponent just decided not to seed one of the *many* dilemmas that are very bad to hit at an outpost.

That's already close to the current state in my meta. Symbalene Blood Burn doesn't always hit, but, when it does, its text may as well say, "Plays on table. You may not play the game for four turns. May not be nullified." In a game that only lasts maybe six turns, that's far too dangerous even to risk.

Yeah I just realized what that card does and I'm surprised it exists. Since no one seems to be screaming for a ban or Nerf I guess it must not be that bad?

I guess the solution is two outposts or play out of hq for a while and never leave people on the Outpost while trying the mission there

With all of the Time Location reporting these days, it's no guarantee to hit.

I used it in a Regional deck a couple of years ago but I was expecting Borg and wanted to hit the Queen and Counterpart camped out on the Transwarp Hub.

I didn't actually face any Borgs, but I did catch Alex parking his important people on a Starfleet OP while he redshirted. They basically iced the game for me.

[frakkingoff]

I was actually being sarcastic. That dilemma would be an insta-kill against speed decks so actually that would be amazing but then the rule would also make sheliak non possible to be unbanned because if knew for sure your outpost would be there then can go for it.

I guess my point was those cards don't actually seem very powerful to me.

Let's assume you can seed dilemmas AFTER facilities:

-Outpost Raid doesn't work against Headquarters or Nors. So your opponent has to be using an outpost for it to be effective
-Even if they ARE using an outpost, it'll kill two people and then is discarded, never to be seen again. That's not a super-powerful killer dilemma, especially in a world of Denevan Neural Parasites.

-The Sheliak, again, doesn't destroy Headquarters.
-The Sheliak goes to the far end of the spaceline, so it's a slow burn. Chances are the game will be done by the time it arrives anyhow.

Neither of these dilemmas seems like they're strong enough to necessarily outweigh the benefits of attempting a mission from your outpost.

I hadn't thought about Symbalene Blood Burn, though. That one might be too nasty.

[BCSWowbagger]

Wait, what exactly is the change?

A) Can't seed doorways outside of doorway phase
B) Can't seed non-doorways during doorway phase
C) Both

Forgive my inconsistent capitalization, but:

(A) is already true. Unless a Doorway specifically allows you to seed it outside the doorway phase (hello Holodeck Door), it must seed during the Doorway phase.

The change is (B): you will no longer be able to seed non-doorways during the Doorway Phase unless specifically allowed (hello Open Diplomatic Relations). Same with the mission phase (nothing but missions, unless specifically allowed) and the dilemma phase (nothing but dilemmas, unless specifically allowed).

[HoodieDM]

In a world of speed solving and report salads, I believe dilemmas (really any cards just seeded under missions) at the end, would be a better way to go.

~D

[PantsOfTheTalShiar]

Wait, what exactly is the change?

A) Can't seed doorways outside of doorway phase
B) Can't seed non-doorways during doorway phase
C) Both

Forgive my inconsistent capitalization, but:

(A) is already true. Unless a Doorway specifically allows you to seed it outside the doorway phase (hello Holodeck Door), it must seed during the Doorway phase.

The change is (B): you will no longer be able to seed non-doorways during the Doorway Phase unless specifically allowed (hello Open Diplomatic Relations). Same with the mission phase (nothing but missions, unless specifically allowed) and the dilemma phase (nothing but dilemmas, unless specifically allowed).

That's what I expected. I saw some posts on the first page about A, so I hope people understand what exactly they're voting for. I hope they understand that this is in fact a change.

The main "loss" is the ability to seed verbs during the mission phase in order to try to cluster your missions. I'm fine with that, since that tactic is always confusing the first time anyone encounters it, and it doesn't really make for interesting gameplay in the long run.

I did have some deck idea that involved seeding Ultimatum during the mission phase to get the Bajor region where I wanted it. But I never played that deck and don't even remember exactly what it was. If I really wanted to, I could still use Bajoran Wormhole: Mirror Universe.

[geraldkw]

I'm fine with minimal manipulation of mission placement. It's potentially unbalancing and very counter to Trek Sense (Unless we are supposed to be Q building the universe as we see fit).

There is already a lot of strategy in this game compared to other CCGs since you can start with so many cards in play. I don't want to remove even more random chance factors because I feel like that's even more of a barrier to new players.

[MidnightLich]

Thank you everyone for your votes and your thoughts. We will continue to seek your input when and where we can, to ensure we're guiding the game in directions you want it to go.

-crp

[Mogor]

In a world of speed solving and report salads, I believe dilemmas (really any cards just seeded under missions) at the end, would be a better way to go.

~D

I would want this to have a lot of play testing as dilemmas at the end suddenly ramps up dilemma strength a hundredfold

[Armus]

In a world of speed solving and report salads, I believe dilemmas (really any cards just seeded under missions) at the end, would be a better way to go.

~D

I would want this to have a lot of play testing as dilemmas at the end suddenly ramps up dilemma strength a hundredfold

Is that a feature or a bug?

I can make a fairly plausible case for the former.

I'll say the same thing here that has been said about 2e, because it applies to 1e as well:

At its core, this game is about overcoming dilemmas and solving missions.

Is having to run through a buzzsaw to get the mission you want really the worst thing for the game? It strikes me as a potential improvement.

[Mogor]

In a world of speed solving and report salads, I believe dilemmas (really any cards just seeded under missions) at the end, would be a better way to go.

~D

I would want this to have a lot of play testing as dilemmas at the end suddenly ramps up dilemma strength a hundredfold

Is that a feature or a bug?

I can make a fairly plausible case for the former.

I'll say the same thing here that has been said about 2e, because it applies to 1e as well:

At its core, this game is about overcoming dilemmas and solving missions.

Is having to run through a buzzsaw to get the mission you want really the worst thing for the game? It strikes me as a potential improvement.

What it would do is make symblaene blood burn and the like much more powerful and I'm not sure thats a good thing

[Armus]

I would want this to have a lot of play testing as dilemmas at the end suddenly ramps up dilemma strength a hundredfold

Is that a feature or a bug?

I can make a fairly plausible case for the former.

I'll say the same thing here that has been said about 2e, because it applies to 1e as well:

At its core, this game is about overcoming dilemmas and solving missions.

Is having to run through a buzzsaw to get the mission you want really the worst thing for the game? It strikes me as a potential improvement.

What it would do is make symblaene blood burn and the like much more powerful and I'm not sure thats a good thing

Ok. So maybe A Missing Day becomes more useful. Or Genesis Effect. Or Only Logical.

Right now if you guess wrong on SBB it's a blank, which is never good when you're trying to figure out which few dilemmas are actually going to make it into your deck.

[AllenGould]

Right now if you guess wrong on SBB it's a blank, which is never good when you're trying to figure out which few dilemmas are actually going to make it into your deck.

OTOH, when it hits it's backbreaking, so there's a risk/reward thing going on.

[Armus]

Right now if you guess wrong on SBB it's a blank, which is never good when you're trying to figure out which few dilemmas are actually going to make it into your deck.

OTOH, when it hits it's backbreaking, so there's a risk/reward thing going on.

Depends on the deck. If you only have one facility, then yes.

OTOOH it would encourage the use of mission IIs and I could see decks playing around it.

IDIC...

[Latok]

At its core, this game is about overcoming dilemmas and solving missions.

This is just a false statement though, about both Trek games. The game is not about facing dilemmas and it is only about solving missions. That's why the dozens of cards that allow you to avoid dilemmas across 1E and 2E exist.