[BCSWowbagger]

I can think of another reasonable fix.

[bhosp]

I can think of another reasonable fix.

This is like my “ban dual HQ” take for 2E—we’re both right, but no one will ever listen to us.

[pfti]

I can think of another reasonable fix.

This is like my “ban dual HQ” take for 2E—we’re both right, but no one will ever listen to us.

This weekend convinced me to at least listen to james

[Hoss-Drone]

Tin foil hat guy says that James deliberately made this tos dl stuff op in order to push his anti agenda.


He also says Trump had Epstein killed. So im thinking this guy is 50% probability of batting .500....

[pfti]

Tin foil hat guy says that James deliberately made this tos dl stuff op in order to push his anti agenda.
.

BWAHAHAHA

I love this spin

[sexecutioner]

I can think of another reasonable fix.

Nope

[Latok]

Tin foil hat guy says that James deliberately made this tos dl stuff op in order to push his anti agenda.

Who did I say this exact theory to at Worlds? Justin or Ken I think.

[Mogh, Son Of Worf]

Tin foil hat guy says that James deliberately made this tos dl stuff op in order to push his anti agenda.

Who did I say this exact theory to at Worlds? Justin or Ken I think.

Also wanted to write the same thing after his comment above but decided to not be that guy for once. Glad someone else did it

[KazonPADD]

Whenever I hear James propose this idea, my instant response is that of Kruge in The Search for Spock:

KIRK: You should take the Vulcan, too.
KRUGE: No.
KIRK: But, why?
KRUGE: Because you wish it.

[BCSWowbagger]

Tin foil hat guy says that James deliberately made this tos dl stuff op in order to push his anti agenda.
.

BWAHAHAHA

I love this spin

Heh heh heh. This gets it almost exactly backward -- but there is a bit of a story here.

The first time I pitched this rule change (internally, back in 2017), one of the objections to it was that it would hurt OS Feds too much. Fair enough! OS Feds sucked in 2017. Another objection was that it would do too much to hinder the (then-brand-new) Broken Bow Starfleet affiliation.

I pitched the rule change a couple more times before and during development on TOS Block, because I thought OS DLs were OP and that our design teams were uniquely positioned to fix it... but I got nowhere. There was widespread internal disagreement about how good was, and there was (at the time) still internal resistance to the idea that was overpowered and needed to be curbed. And, of course, KazonPADD and sexecutioner are both part of OS Block Design, and they are both fiercely opposed to any changes to rules that have been around for a certain number of years.

What we did manage to do in The Cage is keep the problem from getting any worse. The Cage, if you look, uses a lot of icons, but only a couple that interrupt mission attempts -- far less than any previous -based expansion. This was deliberate. The Cage has Giotto and Sulu, but they're only there to provide Final Frontier players with replacements for James Tiberius Kirk and Marlena Moreau (since TFF nullifies Crossover). Other than that, we shied away from adding more of these powerful downloads. In fact, the reason The Final Frontier excludes personnel is specifically to block Ensign O'Brien, Lt. Dax, Lt. Bashir, and Odo from playing for free, because of their powerful downloads.

But it wasn't enough. The overpowered tech has been in the game for years, and it was always going to break as soon as got a play engine. The Cage couldn't fix that on its own, especially not in the face of 1E's deep conservatism about rules tweaks and a lack of alarm bells going off about the power level.

At that point, resigned to the fact that my rule proposal was not going to be an easy sell to a conservative 1E department, and with The Cage essentially locked in at its final power level, I took my proposal public, hoping that public support would gradually build. I hoped to convince people by the force of argument alone (because this rule change is a good idea regardless of meta concerns), but I still thought I was right about and being OP, and I suspected that the evolving meta would make more people open to the idea over time.

Still, I'm surprised by how quickly everyone realized Classic downloads are broken. I thought the community would be arguing about that until December at least, and my proposal wouldn't get a fresh hearing until Q1 2020 at the earliest.

[KazonPADD]

Details of his evil plot in full detail.

He just forgot to add “and now Mr Bond I expect you to die!”

[BCSWowbagger]

Details of his evil plot in full detail.

He just forgot to add “and now Mr Bond I expect you to die!”

I believe my words would be, "Try to stay cool, Mister Bashir."

But, really, my "evil plot" basically just consisted of arguing with you on and off for two years until I gave up and took it public. And The Cage is not the TOS Block set with a [SPOILER REDACTED] in it.

So maybe you should be our prime suspect, hm? A little false flag operation to force the power level up until the Rules Committee has no choice but to act?

[Kaiser]

What we did manage to do in The Cage is keep the problem from getting any worse. The Cage, if you look, uses a lot of icons, but only a couple that interrupt mission attempts -- far less than any previous -based expansion. This was deliberate. The Cage has Giotto and Sulu, but they're only there to provide Final Frontier players with replacements for James Tiberius Kirk and Marlena Moreau (since TFF nullifies Crossover). Other than that, we shied away from adding more of these powerful downloads. In fact, the reason The Final Frontier excludes personnel is specifically to block Ensign O'Brien, Lt. Dax, Lt. Bashir, and Odo from playing for free, because of their powerful downloads.

I'd argue that The Cage did in fact make the equipment situation worse, by, like, a fucking lot, since you added more of the downloading bastards - and they are easy additions, not replacements, because Crew Reassignment (t1 dl with seeded Make it So/GO7) poops on the Crossover ban. Giotto (seed phase dl with Obelisk) and new Sulu (usually t2 dl and play with GO7) are basically your start-of-game download freebies, and then you can easily draw into even more downloaders. So you DID in fact contribute quite a bit to the escalation, imho. And the DS9ers...who cares about them costing a card play when everything else is free.

[BCSWowbagger]

Giotto (seed phase dl with Obelisk) and new Sulu (usually t2 dl and play with GO7) are basically your start-of-game download freebies, and then you can easily draw into even more downloaders.

I'm hard-pressed to consider this escalation, when you could already get even better than that from seed-phase First Officer Spock (via Halkan Council / I.S.S. Enterprise) and Turn 2 Odo (The Trouble With Tribbles) (via Defend Homeworld).

There were already 8 of these downloaders available. Now there are 10. It seems unlikely that 8 was fine but the extra 2 broke the faction.

[BCSWowbagger]

because Crew Reassignment (t1 dl with seeded Make it So/GO7) poops on the Crossover ban

On the other hand, though: darn it. First I've heard of this tech.

This was not intended, nor was it detected in our testing of + non- combo decks. But it does make sense.