[Armus]

If stocked in your Q’s Tent, Q’s Planet may
be retrieved normally by playing a Q’s Tent
from hand (or by a card that allows it to be
downloaded). You may insert it into the
Alpha Quadrant spaceline as your normal
card play (or play immediately if
downloaded). Players then place seed cards
as described above. While it may not be
nullified by a counter-card (such as Q-Flash),
Q’s Planet may be destroyed by a Supernova
or Black Hole. Once destroyed, its game text
requiring an additional 40 points to win is no
longer in effect. See nullify.

So the fact that Q's planet has a glossary entry specifically saying it can be played tells me that you can't play other missions. I'm not sure the blue text ruling in this thread is strictly necessary.

[SudenKapala]

let us not get fully into jurist mode. There is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law.

Agreed. The basic idea of this game is: you seed missions, and solve them; and dilemmas will make it difficult for you to succeed, because otherwise it would be too easy. Now special tactics, exceptions and gimmicks are part of this game. But the game also has specific coping mechanisms for such things. Do we want to employ those, here? I wouldn't.

A recap:

This innovative use ( ) of Vic seems to (A) exploit -- at best, IMO -- a rules loop hole or an ambiguity in the Glossy (in which case, arguments have been made at changing the Glossy OR not).

At worst, it represents -- IMO -- a (B) misinterpretation of the rules (because people have been making that case, too), in which case nothing has to be done (except perhaps a ruling, or better wording, or adding a sentence which we for decades have imagined already existed).

What could also be (C), is that we want this strategy to be viable (for record: I do not concur).
In that case, clearly, countertactics AND/or silver bullets must be made, because it's rather strong.

Does that about sum it up? What did I miss?

(Edit: this reaction is from the time of Dukat's last post.)

[AllenGould]

So the fact that Q's planet has a glossary entry specifically saying it can be played tells me that you can't play other missions. I'm not sure the blue text ruling in this thread is strictly necessary.

Problem is that the Glossary has a lot of entries that aren't so much rules as just "repeating the text of the card, but slower and louder". (See also DRG entries for newer sets).

I think there's either a missing sentence in "missions", and/or a really mangled "card types" entry that needs to be cleaned up. (I'd honestly fix both, at least until Rules finally takes a chain saw to the thing.)

[SudenKapala]

I think there's either a missing sentence in "missions", and/or a really mangled "card types" entry that needs to be cleaned up. (I'd honestly fix both [···]

Yes, this (especially part I emphased). And why not? I mean, why would anybody not want this to happen?

[AllenGould]

I think there's either a missing sentence in "missions", and/or a really mangled "card types" entry that needs to be cleaned up. (I'd honestly fix both [···]

Yes, this (especially part I emphased). And why not? I mean, why would anybody not want this to happen?

Because finding loopholes is fun.

I'm kinda torn on the original TD call - on the one hand, I think it's pretty obvious that getting to drop extra missions mid-game (and thus have no dilemmas) is Not Kosher. But on the other appendage, the game doesn't improve if you don't let players have a moment of reward for finding these sorts of shenanigans. The balance becomes "how much reward does a player get before we close the barn door"?

(By "reward", I mean - we want players to learn the rules and find new shtick - this is a good thing for the health of the game as a whole. So if you clamp down on these things too fast, players stop looking for them. If you let it run too long, everyone else gets cranky. )

[JeBuS]

I just would like to make it clear that while I was making the argument for this loophole, I don't actually want it to be part of the game. I was playing Devil's Advocate. Which maybe should've been the name of the deck.

[BCSWowbagger]

I'm not sure the blue text ruling in this thread is strictly necessary.

Many, many rulings and clarifications aren't strictly necessary. They're a good idea, though, to settle disputes (like the one in this thread).

So the fact that Q's planet has a glossary entry specifically saying it can be played tells me that you can't play other missions.

This is a risky inference. Not necessarily wrong, but not necessarily right, either.

Oftentimes, a card with a new wording will appear, and a Glossary entry will be written to explain it. Years later, a new card that uses the same wording will appear. By this time, "everyone knows" how that wording works, so nobody thinks to create a new Glossary entry for it. Then a rules question arises over the wording. What rules text controls the outcome? The Glossary entry for the older card with the same wording. Once Rules notices this, they generally centralize the text in a generic entry someplace, but that can take a couple months.

I recall this happening with The Art of Diplomacy and maH nlv before... I think Security Drills? Or Temporal Benefactor? Or IDIC: Wisdom?... finally triggered Rules to delete the Art of Diplomacy, The entry and replace it with use (skills).

[AllenGould]

Once Rules notices this, they generally centralize the text in a generic entry someplace, but that can take a couple months.

And to answer the next question: it can take time because (less so nowadays because Rules got wiser), you can end up with two cards that use the same words but don't 100% work the same way (as written in Glossary). So there's a lot of thread pulling to make sure that everything still works (or at least, there's a clear understanding of The New Way Everything Works) before the rules get changed.

[Professor Scott]

So I guess I am still confused..

you cannot "play" non q-icon missions.

This tells me that while I can't use Vic Fontaine to a non Mission, I infer that I can Q's Planet from my Q's Tent.

Is this correct, and if so, would it have to be inserted at where Vic is located or would I still be able to insert it anywhere as it's gametext states?

Also would the timing rules of the even permit the placing of the seed card during the same game interruption?

[AllenGould]

So I guess I am still confused..

you cannot "play" non q-icon missions.

This tells me that while I can't use Vic Fontaine to a non Mission, I infer that I can Q's Planet from my Q's Tent.

Is this correct, and if so, would it have to be inserted at where Vic is located or would I still be able to insert it anywhere as it's gametext states?

Also would the timing rules of the even permit the placing of the seed card during the same game interruption?

1. Yes, it'd have to be where Vic is, because you're using a to do it, which adds an additional restriction/requirement.

2. Yes, because the Planet itself tells you to do it, so it's part of the resolution of that "ability".

[Professor Scott]

[BCSWowbagger]

Remember, though, Q's Planet is banned in OTF! (OBVIOUSLY FOR GOOD REASON YOU GUYS! )

So you'd better be finding yourself a ridiculous Open tournament event in which to run this bizarre tech.