[Armus]

you cannot "play" missions

Q's planet is going to need an errata with this ruling....

[Not_always_but_often]

Q's Planet is then greatly complicated by its weird additional text "may also be stocked in Q's Tent." This text -- and only this text -- allows you to stock Q's Planet outside a Q-Continuum side deck (where Q-icon cards are normally required to be), retrieve it from the Tent, and play it to the table. You wouldn't otherwise be able to do it.

Which means you could not just stock Q's Planet in your deck and play it from your hand.

I get that that is very complicated and silly and makes it very difficult to see the difference when it comes to other mission cards. But rest assured that the bizarreness here is with Q's Planet, not with the other "insert into spaceline" missions.

If you stock Q's Planet in the Tent, and then later retrieve it from your Tent, it goes to your hand, right? And then you play it from hand to the table? (Or does it go straight from Tent to table? It's been long enough since I used it I don't remember)

I know Q's Planet is a very weird card, but it also is a mission that you can play to table. To play it to table, it uses the text "Owner inserts into spaceline". Bizarrely, there's no text on Q's Planet that allows it to play to table beyond the insert text, and the corresponding glossary entry. It's both a weird and poorly written card from a rules perspective, like a lot from the PAQ era.

My point was the only mission or mission-like card that plays from Tent (though not deck) doesn't even have game text that allows it to play, but relies on "insert" phrasing instead, and it's weird that Q's Planet gets to insert during the game but regular missions with insert text can't. Maybe a line in the glossary is needed to address that since you are allowed to stock missions in your deck for whatever reason. (Alternate suggestion: just prohibit missions from being stocked in decks. You can't play them, and there's no conceivable reason to stock them for any productive gameplay purpose. Allowing them to be stocked is pointless, and at worst could give a new player the wrong idea about how missions work, though even that is unlikely.)

[pfti]

you cannot "play" missions

Q's planet is going to need an errata with this ruling....

OP edited

[sexecutioner]

you cannot "play" non q-icon missions.

You're all a bunch of fun-sucking [REDACTED TO AVOID BAN]

[JeBuS]

I, for one, appreciate that the ruling was made swiftly before mayhem could propagate during regional season.

(I also appreciate the Chicago locals who didn't flip the table when we played this weekend and I explained what I was doing. Mike, Ed, Jason: )

[Not_always_but_often]

you cannot "play" non q-icon missions.

You're all a bunch of fun-sucking [REDACTED TO AVOID BAN]

Honestly, now that we've argued about it for a while, it seems like there could be some cool uses of the idea of downloading or playing missions. Not existing missions, because that's obviously completely and utterly broken, but there are some cool idea in this space, like seeding a mission that downloads another mission or something. We already have one example of this, in that a Persistence of Memory'ed Black Hole will produce Space missions every four turns, but I think for the right scenario, design could come up with a cool application of this idea.

[Hoss-Drone]

Fwiw, if I was running said event I would have ruled against you Jebus under the logic that in rule breaking ccg's you cant do something the rules don't explicitly allow for unless the card is specifically allowing it. "Insert into spaceline" wouldn't be enough imho bc that same text operates under the mission rules and doesn't specifically contravene them.

But thank you to our own JC for nipping this in the bud so I don't have to do a quick add to my mn regional deck to add this for more heaney sads.

[commdecker]

The philosophical question is: do we need to mention ALL possible exceptions in the Glossary to cover anything that is not explicitely mentioned?

Because of some people, yes, apparently we do. And that's why the Glossary gets to be such a nitpicky, overcomplicated mess.

That has never been how 1E works. In 1E, it's always been a matter of doing things unless the rules state you can't.

No, it's not. Here's my counterexample. "I play Wesley Crusher. That means I win the game." Go ahead, find me where in the rules it says specifically that that's not true.

Seriously, you know how this works. And your TD knows how this works. In pushing on this, you're only pointing out that the Glossary is not quite as anal as you seem to want it to be.

[JeBuS]

Fwiw, if I was running said event I would have ruled against you Jebus under the logic that in rule breaking ccg's you cant do something the rules don't explicitly allow for unless the card is specifically allowing it. "Insert into spaceline" wouldn't be enough imho bc that same text operates under the mission rules and doesn't specifically contravene them.

But thank you to our own JC for nipping this in the bud so I don't have to do a quick add to my mn regional deck to add this for more heaney sads.

I imagine that any particular TD could go either way on it if the case was allowed to be laid out. I wouldn't have been at all surprised if Mike told me it couldn't be done. I still would have lobbied for the official ruling, though, because someone else would have tried it. Someone much better at the game than I.

[JeBuS]

That has never been how 1E works. In 1E, it's always been a matter of doing things unless the rules state you can't.

No, it's not. Here's my counterexample. "I play Wesley Crusher. That means I win the game." Go ahead, find me where in the rules it says specifically that that's not true.

Seriously, you know how this works. And your TD knows how this works. In pushing on this, you're only pointing out that the Glossary is not quite as anal as you seem to want it to be.

That's a straw man argument that I don't think needs rebuttal.

[pfti]

you cannot "play" non q-icon missions.

You're all a bunch of fun-sucking [REDACTED TO AVOID BAN]

Honestly, now that we've argued about it for a while, it seems like there could be some cool uses of the idea of downloading or playing missions. Not existing missions, because that's obviously completely and utterly broken, but there are some cool idea in this space, like seeding a mission that downloads another mission or something. We already have one example of this, in that a Persistence of Memory'ed Black Hole will produce Space missions every four turns, but I think for the right scenario, design could come up with a cool application of this idea.

This is not the final rules text. If such cards get designed in the future, rules will do what it can to make sure that they work

[sevencrdspud]

Let me rephrase that slightly...

"Today I made quite sure that this will be addressed with a rules update.
And soon, probably."

(For the record: JeBuS didn't say that. Suden was just trying to be funny. )

Well done. Did you win your games? And had fun?

Evade dilemmas in 1e and you get a medal. Evade dilemmas in 2e and everyone LOSES THEIR MINDS!

This Vic downloading a 40 point mission crap needs to be fixed. Or at least let me seed some dilemmas from "outside the game" or something.

But, damn do I love the insane innovation.

[Takket]

some day a giant obelisk shall be built to honor 1E, and it shall be covered in this thread.

[Dukat]

If you stock Q's Planet in the Tent, and then later retrieve it from your Tent, it goes to your hand, right? And then you play it from hand to the table? (Or does it go straight from Tent to table? It's been long enough since I used it I don't remember)

I know Q's Planet is a very weird card, but it also is a mission that you can play to table. To play it to table, it uses the text "Owner inserts into spaceline". Bizarrely, there's no text on Q's Planet that allows it to play to table beyond the insert text, and the corresponding glossary entry. It's both a weird and poorly written card from a rules perspective, like a lot from the PAQ era.

My point was the only mission or mission-like card that plays from Tent (though not deck) doesn't even have game text that allows it to play, but relies on "insert" phrasing instead, and it's weird that Q's Planet gets to insert during the game but regular missions with insert text can't. Maybe a line in the glossary is needed to address that since you are allowed to stock missions in your deck for whatever reason. (Alternate suggestion: just prohibit missions from being stocked in decks. You can't play them, and there's no conceivable reason to stock them for any productive gameplay purpose. Allowing them to be stocked is pointless, and at worst could give a new player the wrong idea about how missions work, though even that is unlikely.)

Edit:
You can also put dilemmas and artifacts in your Q's Tent. You can get them out of there and put them into your hand, yet you can't do anything with them.
Q's Planet is an exception.

To point something out ...
There are artifacts that say 'plays as an interrupt'.

When you put them into your hand from your Q's Tent, you still cannot use them (play them as an interrupt or even), because an artifact has to be acquired.

Seriously, you know how this works. And your TD knows how this works. In pushing on this, you're only pointing out that the Glossary is not quite as anal as you seem to want it to be.

Yes.
See my artifact example above.

Please people ... let us not get fully into jurist mode. There is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law.

If we start having this 'the Glossary doesn't explicitely forbid it' discussion, we are getting into some really dumb waters.

[Latok]

If stocked in your Q’s Tent, Q’s Planet may
be retrieved normally by playing a Q’s Tent
from hand (or by a card that allows it to be
downloaded). You may insert it into the
Alpha Quadrant spaceline as your normal
card play (or play immediately if
downloaded). Players then place seed cards
as described above. While it may not be
nullified by a counter-card (such as Q-Flash),
Q’s Planet may be destroyed by a Supernova
or Black Hole. Once destroyed, its game text
requiring an additional 40 points to win is no
longer in effect. See nullify.