[Clerasil ToB]

Hi everyone!

We've recently had a discussion about the Incident "The Genesis Effect" (https://www.trekcc.org/1e/index.php?mod ... ardID=3440):

When exactly do you have to have the requirement with the numbers of personnel? Is it the begin of the mission attempt or is the current number of personell decisive when you reveal the named dilemma?

Thanks in advance for answering!!!

[Ensign Q]

If Trek was logical Id say at the beginning of the attempt. Then Genesis checks for requirement and is either activated on that attempt or not.

But i dont know ^^ Its one of those cards that could be reworded...

[MidnightLich]

My two cents, based on what I remember about the design: you have to have started the mission attempt with between 3 and 7 personnel; the number you have unstopped when the named dilemma comes up isn't relevant.

However, I'm not a rules expert so I might be wrong.

-crp

[Armus]

The way it's worded I'd say it's the number you have when you encounter the named dilemma.

Contrast with Lack of Preparation which specifically references the beginning of the mission attempt.

[AllenGould]

The way it's worded I'd say it's the number you have when you encounter the named dilemma.

Contrast with Lack of Preparation which specifically references the beginning of the mission attempt.

I'd disagree - the first clause is "when attempting with", which is separated from "your personnel face this dilemma". If it was when you encounter, we would have saved space and said "when you face that dilemma with >2 and <8 personnel".

[Ensign Q]

welcome to 1e problems lol

the card is worded poorly (this time around by cc themselves;))

on top, the game doesnt have clear rules when effects happen. is this Effect triggered at mission attempt or at dilemma encounter?

Same confusion i have with Cryosat and Flute+Music. Is the Flute triggered before or at the same time I get the personnel on my hand.

[AllenGould]

on top, the game doesnt have clear rules when effects happen. is this Effect triggered at mission attempt or at dilemma encounter?

It has to trigger at dilemma encounter (since that's the moment when it does something). Fortunately it's pretty easy to look back and check how many people you started the attempt with.

Same confusion i have with Cryosat and Flute+Music. Is the Flute triggered before or at the same time I get the personnel on my hand.

You get them all at the same time, which means you get to choose the order it happens. (In the same way that when multiple personnel die, you choose the order they go to discard, just in case you have a Nanoprobe Resuscitation you want to use).

[Armus]

The way it's worded I'd say it's the number you have when you encounter the named dilemma.

Contrast with Lack of Preparation which specifically references the beginning of the mission attempt.

I'd disagree - the first clause is "when attempting with", which is separated from "your personnel face this dilemma". If it was when you encounter, we would have saved space and said "when you face that dilemma with >2 and <8 personnel".

Ok let's try an example.

I name Friendly Fire with Genesis Effect.

I start (or begin, if you prefer) a mission attempt at Investigate Time Continuum with Guinan, Davies, Jean-Luc Picard, and Worf.

Currently 4 people attempting.

First dilemma: Parallel Romance stops Guinan and Picard (c'mon you know that tension was there )

Davies and Worf continue on.

Currently 2 people attempting.

Next dilemma is Lack of Preparation. Obviously Worf and Davies can't solve the mission, but because LoP specifically references the start of the attempt, and Guinan was in the away team at that point, then Worf and Davies get past LoP.

Still 2 personnel attempting.

Last dilemma: Friendly Fire. Despite the initial away team having 4 people, there are only two people attempting the mission at this point, so Genesis Effect would NOT trigger to prevent the Friendly Fire because the conditions (>2 and <8 ATTEMPTING the mission) are not being met.

Efficiency considerations aside, your proposed alternative wording and the wording on the card read as functionally equivalent.

If you wanted GE to only care about initial crew/AT size, then the wording should be something like:

Plays on your unexamined mission. When you play this incident, name a dilemma. When you begin an attempt atattempting this mission with >2 and <8 personnel and your personnel face that dilemma during that attempt at this mission, prevent and discard it. (Unique.)

TBH this isn't the best worded card to begin with, and if the Design intent was to base this on initial head count, then it should probably be reworded to explicitly state that.

[Ensign Q]

discord says you get them in seed order

[Armus]

discord says you get them in seed order

Huh?

[Ensign Q]

on top, the game doesnt have clear rules when effects happen. is this Effect triggered at mission attempt or at dilemma encounter?

It has to trigger at dilemma encounter (since that's the moment when it does something). Fortunately it's pretty easy to look back and check how many people you started the attempt with.

Same confusion i have with Cryosat and Flute+Music. Is the Flute triggered before or at the same time I get the personnel on my hand.

You get them all at the same time, which means you get to choose the order it happens. (In the same way that when multiple personnel die, you choose the order they go to discard, just in case you have a Nanoprobe Resuscitation you want to use).

[Clerasil ToB]

As the card is worded right now, it definately could be interpreted in both ways - this would be a perfect time to give this card a Glossary entry to make a fixed ruling (or Errata and change the wording a little bit)...

[Ensign Q]

As the card is worded right now, it definately could be interpreted in both ways - this would be a perfect time to give this card a Glossary entry to make a fixed ruling (or Errata and change the wording a little bit)...

we have to get rid of refcards first

[AllenGould]

discord says you get them in seed order

.. which, if true, *also* means that you get to control the order, since you're the one who seeded them.

[Ensign Q]

discord says you get them in seed order

.. which, if true, *also* means that you get to control the order, since you're the one who seeded them.

so you were head of cc, yet every other thread you show a pretty high lack of rules knowledge. why is that?