This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466033
how many times i have to write its not about power???

does anybody play the game for options and fun?
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By Orbin (James Monsebroten)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466037
Ensign Q wrote:how many times i have to write its not about power???

does anybody play the game for options and fun?
Not everyone has the same idea of fun. I know a few people who would not find it fun to have their homeworld assimilated out from under them. Assimilation does not just steal the mission, but it also steals the headquarters.

- James M
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466042
as said, risk vs reward. if you run homeworlds live with the fear it can at least be stolen by borg. its pretty much protected against everything else.
also you can play around it, dont let borg catch a counterpart...
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466044
If a borg player can waltz up to me with a cube, establish tractor lock, beam through my shields and assimilate a counterpart of 25 or 30 points... and then oh by the way now I’m assimilating your homeworld by blowing through some gender based dilemma combo in one scouting attemp, and now I’m using service the collective to probe this turn for 40 points...

Yeah... no way... that isn’t just NPE. That is “flip the table over” level NPE.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466048
that needs a lot of setup though and how did he catch you in the first place? why did you run excessive icon personnel?
people around here keep saying the game only lasts 5-7 turns. borg wouldnt pull this off much quicker, so it seems on par with other strategies.

i rather flip the table when maco reports 6 personnel each turn, then runs into my killpile and special download 3 turn invincible.
or vulcans force me to attempt with 9 personnel who get stopped after using their skill
or drones report more power than my cube at my location..
or khan starting with 2 ships and invasive beam eeling my people turn 1, then solving 1 mission and wait the points to ramp up on its own.
or
or
or

borg seems quite harmless..
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466054
so thinking about the flavor of borg. they want to improve their species, right?

so in game terms that could mean, they "bring balance to the force" - meaning they could work as balance police.

report a million free reports at homeworlds - borg flies in and steal it
minmax speed solver with only 1 ship - lose it to borg
run personnel with 12 skills - borg is happy to assimilate

at the same time, when you run crappy personnel and bad missions nd no other cheese, borg should be kinda bad against you.

how to balance that? cant put it here in 5min, but it could be possible.

lose against starter decks, win against tier1 piles. id like to see borg could do that.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#466057
Ensign Q wrote:i rather flip the table when maco reports 6 personnel each turn, then runs into my killpile and special download 3 turn invincible.
or vulcans force me to attempt with 9 personnel who get stopped after using their skill
or drones report more power than my cube at my location..
or khan starting with 2 ships and invasive beam eeling my people turn 1, then solving 1 mission and wait the points to ramp up on its own.
or
This seems like an argument for limiting those NPEs, not creating new ones. :)
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466063
as i said the other day, the game needs a clear vision how its supposed to be played at tournament levels. how many turns for example. if borg would assimilate your homeworld turn2, its npe. if it does it turn7 its within the targeted playtime and you just lost to a strategy you might not like, roughly spoken. (did you have outs before and so on)

most of the "npe" stuff i listed there has none or not enough outs in the current game.
Last edited by Ensign Q on Mon May 27, 2019 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#466066
Ensign Q wrote:does anybody play the game for options and fun?
I do. And my friends do. But in that regard, I'm not tourney material, for now. And these boards are mostly concerned with balanced gameplay for tournaments. And those are about winning, mostly. For many people: in a creative way, and with novel ideas -- but winning still.

It is a distinction that I also don't feel comfortable with -- I'm happy to play and lose, but not at those breakneck speeds of 6-8 turns. I want to participate in the arena, but don't know if I'll ever be able to, in a way that suits my game style.
Orbin wrote:Not everyone has the same idea of fun.
That, too, of course. I even see that raises issues in my non-competitive play group.

And on topic -- playing [Bor] goes quite slowly for me... so many options to keep track of, things to think of... :borg: And time is power.
But it's fun! I love the Borg.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#466077
Takket wrote:If a borg player can waltz up to me with a cube, establish tractor lock, beam through my shields and assimilate a counterpart of 25 or 30 points... and then oh by the way now I’m assimilating your homeworld by blowing through some gender based dilemma combo in one scouting attemp, and now I’m using service the collective to probe this turn for 40 points...

Yeah... no way... that isn’t just NPE. That is “flip the table over” level NPE.
The key question I'd have is "what were *you* playing?"

Because if you're doing Romulan Drone, or one of those free report salad decks that was planning to win in three turns, then I have a lot less sympathy that the Borg Got There First. :P

Now, if you guys are just doodling around for fun and someone whips out the Worlds-caliber cheese, then yeah - I'd be cranky too. (Although in your example, the game is pretty much done at that point; it's the games where they want you to sit for another 20 minutes rather than just shake hands and go get a drink that riles me up. YMMV. :) )

It's all about the common expectations - you don't show up for beer league flag football with your friends from the NFL, y'know?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#466081
Ensign Q wrote:as i said the other day, the game needs a clear vision how its supposed to be played at tournament levels. how many turns for example. if borg would assimilate your homeworld turn2, its npe. if it does it turn7 its within the targeted playtime and you just lost to a strategy you might not like, roughly spoken. (did you have outs before and so on)

most of the "npe" stuff i listed there has none or not enough outs in the current game.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#468612
[1E-AU] Please see this topic; and now for a specific question. :borg:

If I would buy some rares -- and I'm thinking of Gowron Of Borg & Dukat Of Borg counterparts -- I could stuff them on Cryosatellite with my Weyoun Of Borg, and seed them.

However, how does that resolve when I earn them?

Actually, they already "enter play" during seeding -- does that make this move illegal already?

And if not illegal, do I have time between their arrivals -- if separate -- to find about each of them that he'll make an excellent drone? Before they become illegal and/or discarded?
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Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#468624
Suden Kapala wrote:[1E-AU] Please see this topic; and now for a specific question. :borg:

If I would buy some rares -- and I'm thinking of Gowron Of Borg & Dukat Of Borg counterparts -- I could stuff them on Cryosatellite with my Weyoun Of Borg, and seed them.

However, how does that resolve when I earn them?

Actually, they already "enter play" during seeding -- does that make this move illegal already?

And if not illegal, do I have time between their arrivals -- if separate -- to find about each of them that he'll make an excellent drone? Before they become illegal and/or discarded?
You can seed multiple, when you earn them you have to choose one to keep and discard the others because of the counterpart rule.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to play He Will Make an Excellent Drone because it is not a valid response and earning the Cryosatellite and each card seeded with it is all the same action.
 
By jrch5618
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#468637
Well, you could seed one of the [1E-AU] counterparts along with some [1E-AU] drones. But make _sure_ you have the Survey Drone. Otherwise you won't be able to claim the Cryosatellite and the personnel inside.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#468645
Thanks. Very helpful. I don't think I have [1E-AU] drones available (Traditional). The Survey drone -- check.
:borg:
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