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 SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e? 
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Post SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
Aside from my opinion that casual play might be under-represented as an aspect of the game on these boards and on the website, I also regret that we don't really have a firm habit of telling each other about ourselves in an "introductory" topic (such as the one I hijacked last year -- in which I recently reported on a personal milestone).
As you may have seen, I've been trying to inspire new members to introduce themselves a bit. With... well, rather limited success. The community has spoken! :P

Even so, I'd also be thrilled if veteran members would feel compelled to tell a bit of their story. So I thought I might start some topics with "simple" questions. So -- let's start by combining the above 3 issues... (And to give myself added incentive, I already started out numbering them. :o )


Suden is interested in YOU.
(Well, regarding this question, anyway:)
(#0) Which Sci-Fi multi-media franchises do you like (besides Trek)?
(#2) Why did you choose your avatar(s)?
(#3) Explain your handle (forum name).
(#4) How much time do you spend with card games?


Part I:
How many 1e games do you usually play per month?

Bonus questions: How many of those games are OP (organized), how many are casual ('kitchen table')?
How long do they usually last -- by estimate?

This is purely because I'm interested. I think.

My own answers:
  • About 1 game p/month, sometimes 2 (1.6 to be more precise; and I really wonder if that's a lot, or little, or average);
  • Casual only (so far) (which is prolly NOT average :o );
  • Of the 85 games I've measured (of 99 total), the average duration was 3h, 8m, 45s. [/ Oppan Data Style] 8)

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Last edited by SudenKapala on Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:14 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
Right now, I'm playing about 2 test games per month plus one tournament (3 rounds) every other month, so... about 3.5 games per month?

I like casual when I get a chance to play it, but it's pretty much Organized Play of some variety all the way down for me.

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Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:55 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
This is a fantastic idea! I agree that competitive play tends to get a bit more activity on these forums, but I think that's a result of the level of player engagement that comes with competitive vs casual play. Most kitchen table players aren't really worried about the deep intricacies of card interactions in my experience, so they're maybe less likely to seek out resources like the CC forums, I think (if they even suspect they exist to begin with).

My :twocents: :
I used to average about 2 games per week (usually 2 a night on our game night), but that's dropped to near 0 as life has gotten busy and kept game nights from happening as regularly.

I'm almost exclusively casual play. I've done GenCon sealed tournaments (two of them), but nothing else organized. One of these months I'll make it to the games in Chicago, but it's not lined up with my calendar yet... :/

Most of my casual games have taken between 1 and 2 hours. While I was still teaching my play partner, they ran longer as he took longer to make his game decisions, but he's quickly gotten the hang of it, and we can pound out 2 games a night if we really want to. Multiplayer games (though rare for us) often stretch to 3 or 4 hours, but there's so much going on that we don't really count those as games in the same sense. They're really more social time with some Trek happening to accompany it. Lots of jokes, goofy roleplay, and peanut gallery commentary; good times, but hardly game-focused time.


Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:17 am
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
I really don't get to play as much whole games any more. But I do test a lot of things and play a lot. And teach a lot. But I do get to play something in the range of 2-4 tournaments a year. But there is a large amount of kitchen table games as well as some over Lackey from time to time.

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Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:20 am
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
I don't play at all right now between lack of local opponents, and a big (and admittedly unreasonable) fear of messing up (particularly in Dilemma seeding order) in Lackey leading to the substantial game setup 1E requires going to waste. I've gotten offers from people willing to be patient, but I'm still scared to try.

But I have completed my all but AGT collection of 1E, including both sets of borders on multi affiliation cards printed in Voyager in beyond, so I did succeed there at least.

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Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:09 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
Boffo97 wrote:
a big (and admittedly unreasonable) fear of messing up (particularly in Dilemma seeding order) in Lackey leading to the substantial game setup 1E requires going to waste.


If you did somehow screw up your dilemma seeding order, you wouldn't be the first. The accepted Lackey solution outside tournament games is to let you (1) check the first dilemma before opponent reveals it in an attempt and (2) re-order your pile on the spot if incorrect.

Gonna keep offering. :)

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Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:12 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
tlmirkes wrote:
This is a fantastic idea! I agree that competitive play tends to get a bit more activity on these forums, but I think that's a result of the level of player engagement that comes with competitive vs casual play. Most kitchen table players aren't really worried about the deep intricacies of card interactions in my experience, so they're maybe less likely to seek out resources like the CC forums, I think (if they even suspect they exist to begin with).

Well, this topic was not meant to -- again -- veer into that territory (it was genuine interest in what y'all are doing). However, I won't shun the subject, of course!
I think that those things (emphasis in quote by me) might perhaps be shifting a bit? I see a lot of (new) people asking in-depth questions, and I wonder if there's more exclusively casual players among them.
So if this topic also generates some awareness in that regard, so much the better. :) But I also like to hear from the OP veterans, of course. :thumbsup:

tlmirkes wrote:
Most of my casual games have taken between 1 and 2 hours. While I was still teaching my play partner, they ran longer as he took longer to make his game decisions, but he's quickly gotten the hang of it, and we can pound out 2 games a night if we really want to.

That sounds like "fast" games to my average of nearly 4h. (6h40m was the max so far -- stretched over 2 days. It was a [Bor] game -- my first.) :thumbsup:

tlmirkes wrote:
Multiplayer games (though rare for us)
often stretch to 3 or 4 hours, but there's so much going on that we don't really count those as games in the same sense. They're really more social time with some Trek happening to accompany it. Lots of jokes, goofy roleplay, and peanut gallery commentary
; good times, but hardly game-focused time.

Would you like to elaborate on why this is? I find that in my group -- usually even with a novice new player -- MP games almost work as well, and as structured, as regular 2P games. We have basically one extra rule -- dilemmas are seeded for the CW (clockwise/next) player; and they are resolved with the counter-CW (previous) player. Thus, a player gets to resolve his own dilemmas with the encountering player. We use the Y- or X-shaped spaceline.
If anyone's interested, I can look up in my notes ("house rules bible") whether we had any other rulings, but my idea was to keep it as close as possible to regular, Open 1e. That worked quite well.
But perhaps the more chaotic and humourous way that you play MP is a choice rather than a result? :)

Smiley wrote:
But I do test a lot of things and play a lot. And teach a lot.

That's also quite a noble way of using the cards. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I hope it's fun enough for you, too.

Smiley wrote:
I really don't get to play as much whole games any more. [...] But there is a large amount of kitchen table games as well as some over Lackey from time to time.

So, the kitchen table games -- do you finish them, and/or how long do they generally last? What did you mean with 'whole games'?

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Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:27 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
SudenKapala wrote:
That sounds like "fast" games to my average of nearly 4h. (6h40m was the max so far -- stretched over 2 days It was a [Bor] game -- my first.) :thumbsup:

Only the early games lasted that long, when I was rediscovering all the things I'd forgotten in my years away and teaching my opponent how to play anew. We started with a relatively small card pool (PAQ, for starters, adding expansions later), so there wasn't a lot of complexity. Mostly just weird takes on mission solvers and goofy themes that either did really well or got shredded in mission attempts. Good fun, but low complexity seemed to help things move along at a good clip.

SudenKapala wrote:
Would you like to elaborate on why this is? I find that in my group -- usually even with a novice new player -- MP games almost work as well, and as structured, as regular 2P games. We have basically one extra rule -- dilemmas are seeded for the CW (clockwise/next) player; and they are resolved with the counter-CW (previous) player. Thus, a player gets to resolve his own dilemmas with the encountering player. We use the Y- or X-shapes spaceline.

With our group, the players who would join us for multiplayer were exceedingly casual and played maybe once or twice every few months, if at all. Lots of rules reminders, play questions, and general instruction time. That and we don't often get together in larger groups like that as a social setting, so there were a lot of asides, diversions, and random pauses for stories or other catching up. So our longer games weren't explicitly because of play, but more due to the socializing being a more prominent factor in the event. :)

We usually play with the Great Space Wheel layout, having one spoke for each player. In multiplayer games, we've also found that randomly distributing dilemmas helps to even the playing field a bit between the two of us who played regularly and those who don't (still matching mission type but deal 4 random dilemmas to each space mission, 4 to each planet mission, and you're set to go). It removes the dilemma strategy element of the game, but it also means that everyone has equal chances of breezing to easy points or getting hosed every time you attempt a mission. It's created some genuinely memorable narratives in these games, and it tends to keep things from getting too focused on who's winning instead on having a good time.

SudenKapala wrote:
If anyone's interested, I can look up in my notes ("house rules bible") whether we had any other rulings, but my idea was to keep it as close as possible to regular, Open 1e. That worked quite well.

I'd be interested! I'm always curious how other groups adapted a 2-player setup to multiplayer settings. Everyone seems to have their own ideas about what is "best" in that regard...

SudenKapala wrote:
But perhaps the more chaotic and humourous way that you play MP is a choice rather than a result? :)

You're not wrong. :wink:

We tried constructed dilemma piles and it was not fun for the people who had a hard enough time remembering how dilemmas worked, much less which ones go well together. We tried playing competitively, but the occasional players had less fun when some of us knew what we were doing and others of us could hardly remember which end of the phaser points at the other guy. So we adapted to play with a very casual structure with a bunch of randomness to keep things variable and discourage the experienced folks from showing up with "killer decks" and whomping everyone into having a bad time.

Our 2-player games are still casually competitive, but the multiplayer games are strictly "for fun".


Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:55 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
First, a reaction to the previous posts:
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Boffo97 wrote:
a big (and admittedly unreasonable) fear of messing up (particularly in Dilemma seeding order) in Lackey leading to the substantial game setup 1E requires going to waste.

If you did somehow screw up your dilemma seeding order, you wouldn't be the first. The accepted Lackey solution outside tournament games is to let you (1) check the first dilemma before opponent reveals it in an attempt and (2) re-order your pile on the spot if incorrect.

Gonna keep offering. :)

If I ever get around to digital play -- which is on my to do list now, but there's a lot more where that comes from -- I'd be happy to know that either of you would like to play a patient game. :cheersL: :thumbsup:

(Tim, I hope to get around to reacting to your post soon.)

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Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:44 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
SudenKapala wrote:
How many 1e games do you usually play per month?


Right now, it's 1-3 test games a month. Because they're focused on testing, they aren't even usually full games. I'd like to play more, but I usually have trouble with online tournaments and I've not really started bugging Chris and Andrea Lobban (Maelwys and Kamala) to play with me yet.

SudenKapala wrote:
Bonus questions: How many of those games are OP (organized), how many are casual ('kitchen table')?


I like tournaments, so I lean that way. I'm not opposed to kitchen table games though! But to be fair, I'm not cutthroat nor are most of the people I play with, so the only real difference is getting ratings/prizes vs not.

SudenKapala wrote:
How long do they usually last -- by estimate?


I think 75 minutes completes most of my games.

-crp

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Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:05 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
I play one casual game a month with my buddies when we get together. I'd love to play online more but time is a luxury that I am short on in the last year. We usually play a 3way game so it takes about 2.5 hours, give or take. It's a ton of fun :)

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Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:16 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
Here's my reactions to Tim's essay. Thanks for taking the time, everybody! :)
Tim wrote:
started with a relatively small card pool (PAQ, for starters, adding expansions later), so there wasn't a lot of complexity.
Mostly just weird takes on mission solvers and goofy themes that either did really well or got shredded in mission attempts.
Good fun, but low complexity seemed to help things move along at a good clip.

I think I wish now, I'd have done that. But I wanted to play with all my cards, and didn't realise it would be a good idea.

Quote:
We usually play with the Great Space Wheel layout, having one spoke for each player.

To me, this seems to take up more space and make it messy/unclear. Clearly, you have different experience -- it must work especially well, given the way you describe your games (as otherwise not extremely structured). Why did you choose this, and why does it work for you?

Quote:
((using random dilemma distro))

It took me a long time to find a 'competitive' (i.e., fool-proof and "honest") way of doing this, even when using ultiple copies of dilemmas. But we did use it, and if practiced, it saves time for players who don't play with their own decks. :)
Can you describe how you do that? (Perhaps in a separate thread -- like to one I should start about the MP rules.)

Quote:
((using random dilemma distro)) removes the dilemma strategy element of the game, but it also means that everyone has equal chances of breezing to easy points or getting hosed every time you attempt a mission. It's created some genuinely memorable narratives in these games

Same experience here! :thumbsup:

Quote:
and it tends to keep things from getting too focused on who's winning instead on having a good time.

TBH, in my group, there are no people who are focussed like that (even usually), so we don't run that risk.

Quote:
SudenKapala wrote:
If anyone's interested, I can look up in my notes ("house rules bible") whether we had any other rulings, but my idea was to keep it as close as possible to regular, Open 1e. That worked quite well.

I'd be interested! I'm always curious how other groups adapted a 2-player setup to multiplayer settings.

Me, too. I'll look that stuff up, and perhaps post it in a separate gameplay thread. Soms months ago I asked if there already was one, since I was having a similar discussion about it; but I've come to understand that we can just as well create a new topic.

Quote:
Everyone seems to have their own ideas about what is "best" in that regard...

I reckon that's because there are no official rules for it. Which still kind of surprises me.

Quote:
some of us knew what we were doing and others of us could hardly remember which end of the phaser points at the other guy.

:P :D

Quote:
So we adapted to play with a very casual structure with a bunch of randomness to keep things variable

Is the dilemma distro the only randomness? Or what else have you customized?

Quote:
and discourage the experienced folks from showing up with "killer decks" and whomping everyone into having a bad time.

To deal with this potential issue, I tend to build different kinds decks. I have "internal" decks which I've more or less balanced to be able to face each other; and "external" (supposed-to-be-killer) decks to face opponents who have their own decks.
The internal decks are of various "tiers". I have soms surplus decks (yes, those are Traditional, too) that I don't mind getting lost or damaged while on vacation -- obviously, they are common/uncommon only, and of a very low "tier", but they are fun together.

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Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:04 am
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
I think I play once every couple of years

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Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:05 pm
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
Se7enofMine wrote:
We usually play a 3way game so it takes about 2.5 hours, give or take. It's a ton of fun :)

So -- you'll have some thoughts on that, too. :) Will you add your ideas on multiplayer games to [url]the corresponding topic[/url]? As he said here, Tim might also be interested.

Kander77 wrote:
I think I play once every couple of years

Is that because of lack of time, lack of opponents, and/or is such frequency OK for you? What do you do with the game and cards in between?

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Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:50 am
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Post Re: SIIIY (#1): How often do you play 1e?
I'd have to look but my guess is I average 0.5-1 game/month. It's just hard to find the time to prep AND get out of the house for a full day. :?
I am trying to pursue getting more casual games in via online play though. I don't have any once close that can "pop over" for a game like I did in my younger days...

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