[JeBuS]

And on a related note, how do I use a limited VP in an online tournament? I have a few physical copies of one particular tournament-reward VP, but as far as I know, I can't use it in online tournaments. Right?

[Winner of Borg]

Just so we are clear, the only goal of this change was to incentivize the purchase of tournament kits. Tournament kits remain the Continuing Committee's primary source of revenue, and without kits being purchased the sustainability of Organized Play and everything else that comes with the Continuing Committee's stewardship of the games is in jeopardy. Buying kits keeps us alive. I cannot state that more directly.

i think i'm purchasing enough kits; often i'm refraining from buying more copies because the contingent is limited and i want to leave some for other countries...

but if tournament rules are for sale now, let's talk numbers. how much would a revert to the previous state (cards are only tournament legal once a printable version exists) cost me per year?

[Slayer07]

Obvious solution: post the game text, not the image (or the UP mockup, even). Then people can't print the image for free, but still know that (a) the card exists and (b) that a player didn't just fire up Photoshop and make their very own Exclusive Tournament Promo.

no. that would only solve the smallest part of the problem. a card should not be tournament legal before everybody has access to it. we've made all decipher cards printable to create a level playing field; and with virtual promos the problem is actually WORSE than it was with decipher cards, because trekcc cannot allow them being sold on ebay.

Except the whole point is that they don't *want* a printable version in the field, because they want you going to tournaments and getting your copy there. (I personally dislike tournament exclusives, but I accept that they work.)

So, putting a database entry up with the card text, but just a placeholder "Get this card at your local tournament!" ad image lets us plebes at least know that the card exists.

if that's what "they" want, then i want "them" burned at the stake. i do not support a return to the stone age where some cards, gameplay-wise, are not available to every player before they can be used against them. it's bad enough for collectors as is.

I second this. There are simply people who, for whatever reason, do not have the chance to get to a tournament or cannot get to a tournament. It also makes it impossible for those who want to collect but not play to get cards like that. These 'exclusives' should not exist in a world where we can print out any card and for some this does not work it simply alienates people and force them to possibly leave.

[LORE]

I second this. There are simply people who, for whatever reason, do not have the chance to get to a tournament or cannot get to a tournament. It also makes it impossible for those who want to collect but not play to get cards like that. These 'exclusives' should not exist in a world where we can print out any card and for some this does not work it simply alienates people and force them to possibly leave.

I am not sure I follow. Currently, alternate image tournament foils are awarded at various OP events in which the tournament director ordered a kit. These are foils of currently existing cards, and after a period of exclusivity, the alternate image then becomes printable. This has been standard practice for several years.

Is your issue with this process in general, or with the release of this specific card at this specific time? Help me understand.

[Slayer07]

I second this. There are simply people who, for whatever reason, do not have the chance to get to a tournament or cannot get to a tournament. It also makes it impossible for those who want to collect but not play to get cards like that. These 'exclusives' should not exist in a world where we can print out any card and for some this does not work it simply alienates people and force them to possibly leave.

I am not sure I follow. Currently, alternate image tournament foils are awarded at various OP events in which the tournament director ordered a kit. These are foils of currently existing cards, and after a period of exclusivity, the alternate image then becomes printable. This has been standard practice for several years.

Is your issue with this process in general, or with the release of this specific card at this specific time? Help me understand.

I dislike this process in general. Let me make this clear; I am unable to go to tournaments. I cannot get any promos this way. Which is too bad because there are foils I'd love to have. If I do not have the option of printing them off at least I cannot get them. I cannot spell this out any simpler than that. If a card is released only this way I am screwed. Surely I am not the only one who has that problem. It hasn't been an issue (bar Centurion Kirk but I expect that to clear up in the next set) until now so there was no reason to worry about it. But if this becomes a standard practice then it becomes an issue.

[AllenGould]

I dislike this process in general. Let me make this clear; I am unable to go to tournaments. I cannot get any promos this way. Which is too bad because there are foils I'd love to have. If I do not have the option of printing them off at least I cannot get them. I cannot spell this out any simpler than that. If a card is released only this way I am screwed. Surely I am not the only one who has that problem. It hasn't been an issue (bar Centurion Kirk but I expect that to clear up in the next set) until now so there was no reason to worry about it. But if this becomes a standard practice then it becomes an issue.

Just to clarify - the plan is eventually for the Card That We Dare Not Speak It's Name to get a normal release, right?

[Slayer07]

I dislike this process in general. Let me make this clear; I am unable to go to tournaments. I cannot get any promos this way. Which is too bad because there are foils I'd love to have. If I do not have the option of printing them off at least I cannot get them. I cannot spell this out any simpler than that. If a card is released only this way I am screwed. Surely I am not the only one who has that problem. It hasn't been an issue (bar Centurion Kirk but I expect that to clear up in the next set) until now so there was no reason to worry about it. But if this becomes a standard practice then it becomes an issue.

Just to clarify - the plan is eventually for the Card That We Dare Not Speak It's Name to get a normal release, right?

I'd hope so, but when? Is this a month thing? A six month thing? At the very least this card should not be tournament legal until everyone has access to it without tournament participation or tournament win or whatever.

[LORE]

I dislike this process in general. Let me make this clear; I am unable to go to tournaments. I cannot get any promos this way. Which is too bad because there are foils I'd love to have...

Thanks for the clarification. I hear you. As an alternative, have you considered the trade market? I know I frequently trade CC-era foils for Decipher cards (of all rarities.) Just a suggestion.

[Slayer07]

I dislike this process in general. Let me make this clear; I am unable to go to tournaments. I cannot get any promos this way. Which is too bad because there are foils I'd love to have...

Thanks for the clarification. I hear you. As an alternative, have you considered the trade market? I know I frequently trade CC-era foils for Decipher cards (of all rarities.) Just a suggestion.

Actually no I hadn't considered that route before. I might have to look into it, or something. Sadly the Decipher era cards I have that I can trade are few and far between since the first move I did the last five years saw most of my extra cards destroyed.

[LORE]

i think i'm purchasing enough kits; often i'm refraining from buying more copies because the contingent is limited and i want to leave some for other countries...

but if tournament rules are for sale now, let's talk numbers. how much would a revert to the previous state (cards are only tournament legal once a printable version exists) cost me per year?

You probably do not hear it enough from CC leadership, but I for one appreciate your continued support of OP through purchasing kits. Truly. Thank you very much, Stefan.

Again, I have limited knowledge of the 1E side of the house but my understanding is there are just 2 cards in the wild that are not currently 100% printable - Centurion Kirk and Persistent Individuality. I am not certain, but I have to believe Centurion Kirk will make his black bordered debut in the next 1E set - The Neutral Zone. I have no knowledge of when Persistent Individuality is set to be released, but am in communication with Charlie today. We will do our best to get it up on the site if not printable shortly.

[AllenGould]

Meanwhile, I'm gonna check that my Premium Membership is up to date. (The other easy way for folks to help keep this boat afloat. )

[Discovery rox]

LORE, the entire process youve outlined is creating a barrier to new players at tournaments.

if i want to play in my first tournament with a certain deck type that needs a certain card, your saying i need to either go back in time and get it at another tournament (vulcan science says time travel is impossible) or pay some resources, probably extesnive, to acquire it, like trading old decipher foils or cash or whatever.

your creating two classes of players. those who have acess to all the cards, by being tournament regulars or rich, and those who do not have acess to all the cards. is that the kind of organized play environment you want to create?

i understand you want to make these tournament kits attractive to buy to keep things running. theres two solutions.

first, you can make the card avaialble to print on the website before it becomes legal. if you want to use different or worse art for the website version, that would make the tournament kit still attractive without creating two divisions of players. maybe not the same uber attractiveness as before, but at least its no longer unfair.

or second, you can make the preview cards not tournament legal. that way people can still think these cards are really cool and make the kits attractive, because there actually seeing a piece of the future that most people dont see, and they can show it off to there friends and use it in the home games. but if you make it not legal, you dont create player classes. so its purely marketing without breaking the environment.

[Rachmaninoff]

This whole discussion is a bit hypothetical for me, since I have no idea what the dilemma under discussion does. I am not realistically able to play tournaments so I will likely not see this card for quite some time. But nevertheless:

1. In a tournament it is critical that I can verify that a card is legal. I like Allen's solution -- spoil the relevant gametext but keep the image hidden or heavily obscured to preserve the coolness/surprise factor when you see it. Maybe hide it somewhere obscure on the CC site. But there needs to be some way to distinguish "this is a legit preview card" from "a photoshopped dream card printed out with a white border that I claim is a new preview".

2. If there is a "surprise" card, it should be "I get to do something cool, and my opponent is excited to see a cool new card too" rather than "I get to screw over my opponent who wasn't expecting it because they're not part of the in-crowd". The first Decipher preview was the USS Defiant in DS9, which fit this role perfectly. It's a cool card, it let Decipher focus the set on the first two seasons while addressing the inevitable "how can you have DS9 without the Defiant" questions, AND was powerful enough to be useful, but not gamebreaking if it showed up on the other side of the table. A powerful dilemma "surprise" is much sneakier and feels like a sucker punch. (*)

Centurion Kirk is an example of a preview that avoids both these problems: it shows up on the website, and it's a cool/flashy card that doesn't feel like a cheat if your opponent plays it. I'd be legit excited if I saw my opponent play something like Centurion Kirk even if I didn't know the card existed

(assuming I can verify its legality, of course)

. A surprise dilemma that devastates my crew, not so much.

I understand the argument about equal accessibility to players, but I also acknowledge the power of having an incentive for tournament play and CC revenue. So on balance I'm fine with quasi-secret previews as long as they address the two issues above.

[Se7enofMine]

I understand the argument about equal accessibility to players, but I also acknowledge the power of having an incentive for tournament play and CC revenue. So on balance I'm fine with quasi-secret previews as long as they address the two issues above.

This is pretty much where I'm at.

It "sucks" that I can't get to tourneys so I have no access to these cards. But I accept it as part of the site.

I would like to, one day, collect all the CC-era promo foils. But, I suspect, that will monumentally difficult.

[MidnightLich]

For reference, here is the card in question:

Dilemma {ST: VOY}
Persistent Individuality
The Borg Queen uses deadly force and extreme measures to protect the hive mind. The sense of identity found in residents of Unimatrix Zero was both a threat and a means to resist.
Kills 7 - X personnel (random selection), where X = the number of different classifications present. To get past requires ENGINEER.

I will be working with Chris Lobban (Maelyws), my roommate, to get this card in the database ASAP. I'm also talking with Kris, as the Director of OP, to figure out the best path forward on this. Your feedback is being heard.

-crp