This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Trailblazer
#483361
Welcome to today's First Edition Friday Question, where you get a chance to answer questions that will help shape the future of First Edition. This is the fourth installment of this series, and so far I think it's been going well. If you want to read up on or answer previous questions, here's a list:
20 SEP 2019: Which rules always confuse you?
13 SEP 2019: What do you think of [SPOILER]?
6 SEP 2019: Which card needs an alternate image (AI)?
30 AUG 2019: Which characteristic needs love?
WARNING: This thread will contain spoilers for a card that may appear in an upcoming expansion. If you aren't interested in that, please don't read on. The actual card is hidden, but might not be in the replies. Don't worry, we'll be back next week with a new, spoiler-free question.

We're working on a mission for The Neutral Zone, and the design team can't seem to agree on how many points the mission should be worth. In the spirit of communication and openness, we decided to ask you for your opinions.

Here's the mission - with the story details withheld - as it stands right now:

BIG SHIP MISSION
[S] Location withheld: Lore withheld.
Navigation x2 + Computer Skill + Stellar Cartography + (RANGE + WEAPONS + SHIELDS > 25)
Any crew may attempt [??]
[SPAN 6]


How many points should this mission be worth?

I know that we just did a public comment on a card in development two weeks ago, but this week is more about breaking the tie than anything else. Although, your comments and feedback on the mission itself are welcome too, we're particularly interested in how many points you think should be on the mission. 30? 35? 40? More? Let us know! Feel free to also pick it apart, talk about how you'll use it (or why you wouldn't), theorycraft, and more - like we could stop you!

You might be wondering why we're withholding the story for the mission. There are two reasons: a) the story we picked is a spoiler for something we haven't announced yet; and b) the story doesn't matter for the point value. We do have a story, we just want you to focus on the value of the mission in a vacuum instead of getting distracted by the story choice. I hope that makes sense. With all of that in mind, how many points should this mission be worth?

Have a great weekend! We're looking forward to seeing your discussions on this card. Don't forget that next weekend - October 4th, 5th, and 6th - is First Weekend, First Edition. If you play 1E, build decks, test decks, or anything in that space, post about it. If you post here on the forums, on The Dojo, on Facebook, or on Twitter with the hashtag #showusyourspaceline, you can win a fabulous prize!

-crp
User avatar
 
By Jono (Sean O'Reilly)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Commodore
#483365
Here's the thing... 40 point missions don't get used very much because they can be easily stolen.

What you should look at is how many 40 point missions have been included in constructed decks lately. I doubt there are too many.

That's the reason I'd put this mission at 35 points. All you need is a ship that's 9-8-9 or 8-8-8 with bonuses. It's not too hard.
User avatar
 
By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#483368
Requirements-wise I'm seeing a 35 point mission. The closest comparison I see is Protect Shipment.

Really not sure I like that span 6 though. Historically that's been a roadblock with the default damage rule.

However, with the new SAM approach, maybe it's ok.

Definitely needs tested. A lot.
User avatar
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#483369
Based on requirements and span I would say 50 points. People always act like a mission can be stolen so easy in the game. The requirements are not necessary easy for sure. Afflication icon should only be 1 to make it even harder to steal it.

I do hate the span 6 because it makes it hard for alot of ships. If I can only move 1 mission a turn it makes it hard to win the game.
Last edited by Discovery suxs on Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
President
Community Contributor
#483377
I mostly see this as a card that I maliciously seed near my opponent's Outpost to make their life hard and sad. making it stealable would prevent that, but would also probably stop me from playing with it personally.

So, I don't know. Tricky sich. The high span is THE thing making the mission mechanically interesting, so I don't want to lose it.

To me, right now, it's a 35-pointer by requirements, +5 and maybe +10 due to span. Could embrace that and make it a 40/45 pointer that I probably won't play. Could make the requirements easier and keep the span where it is to make it a 35-pointer, and then I will play it mainly to screw with my opponent rather than to solve it.
User avatar
 
By Orbin (James Monsebroten)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#483384
BCSWowbagger wrote:I mostly see this as a card that I maliciously seed near my opponent's Outpost to make their life hard and sad. making it stealable would prevent that, but would also probably stop me from playing with it personally.

So, I don't know. Tricky sich. The high span is THE thing making the mission mechanically interesting, so I don't want to lose it.

To me, right now, it's a 35-pointer by requirements, +5 and maybe +10 due to span. Could embrace that and make it a 40/45 pointer that I probably won't play. Could make the requirements easier and keep the span where it is to make it a 35-pointer, and then I will play it mainly to screw with my opponent rather than to solve it.
If you can place it right and put a Neutral Outpost there with Woteln you could really make your opponent cry :)

- James M
User avatar
 
By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#483389
Orbin wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:I mostly see this as a card that I maliciously seed near my opponent's Outpost to make their life hard and sad. making it stealable would prevent that, but would also probably stop me from playing with it personally.

So, I don't know. Tricky sich. The high span is THE thing making the mission mechanically interesting, so I don't want to lose it.

To me, right now, it's a 35-pointer by requirements, +5 and maybe +10 due to span. Could embrace that and make it a 40/45 pointer that I probably won't play. Could make the requirements easier and keep the span where it is to make it a 35-pointer, and then I will play it mainly to screw with my opponent rather than to solve it.
If you can place it right and put a Neutral Outpost there with Woteln you could really make your opponent cry :)

- James M
This is why I'm really not sure about this. Spaceline roadblocking should be extremely rare and specialized and not something that you can just drop on an opponent and end their game in the seed phase.

I mean, unless you want everybody to play [22] with UFP: One Small Step. But I thought the point of new cards was to give good alternatives to [22] , not encourage more of it.

The stated design objectives and the decisions being made to implement those objectives are really incongruous.

At least we're being given the chance to speak out during production, so that's definitely an improvement. :thumbsup:
User avatar
 
By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Counterpart
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2019
1E Austrian National Runner-Up 2020
1E British National Second Runner-Up 2020
#483390
I genuinely SHAT myself when I read the start of this article!

I had a feeling it would be this mission. The sigh of relief when the location and lore was redacted was glorious...
User avatar
 
By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#483404
With those skills requirements, make it 35. 3 to 4 mission specialists and you have a 50 point mission no problem. If you are afraid of road blocks, play with a where no in your tent for an escape route. Both of them are potentially helpful in this context.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#483415
this is a mission that is begging to be stealable for game mechanics reasons. this card really invites interaction once its stealable.

its a card that literally requires a powerful ship and can be attempted by any crew. so you sit your powerful ship there, even if your not attempting, ready to swoop in and take the points if your opponent tries to steal and fails

or you sit your powerful ship nearby. and then that makes your ship an obstacle opponent has to deal with. they can punch through there dilemmas pretty easily but what about that one dilemma you seeded to make it safe against stealing too easily? they have to worry about that, which means they have to worry about your power ship. which means now they have to think about battling you and taking your ship off the board before they can steal the mission. or they at least have to damage your attributes enough to make them 25 or less.

but if they do that, maybe you damage them too so they cant finish the mission. then youve had conflict but no points scored so the story the game is telling gets to keep oin going and stays interesting.

or maybe they split up into two ships. the mission solving team on the power ship and the dilemma busting team on the smaller ship. so even if they grab the mission, you get to use your power ship to take out there dilemma busting team. so the opponent got points but you got a key tactical victory which might really hamper there ability to get the rest of hte points they need.

or maybe they dont attempt the mission. maybe they do the same thing you do, they park there power ship nearby. then both sides stare each other down. whos going to blink first? whos going to make the first move, either against the other ship or against the mission? this happens so much on star trek, and this card creates ship to ship brinksmanship that isnt seen much.

youve inspired interaction and strategy with this card. but thats only true if its stealable and its only stealable, and worth devoting the resources of a parked power ship, if you make it 40 points.
User avatar
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#483455
winterflames wrote:With those skills requirements, make it 35. 3 to 4 mission specialists and you have a 50 point mission no problem. If you are afraid of road blocks, play with a where no in your tent for an escape route. Both of them are potentially helpful in this context.
Or just simply play with a different mission lol. If it is only 35pts then I will seed something much easier. The requirements are not easy for a 35 pt mission.
User avatar
 
By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#483463
Discovery suxs wrote:
winterflames wrote:With those skills requirements, make it 35. 3 to 4 mission specialists and you have a 50 point mission no problem. If you are afraid of road blocks, play with a where no in your tent for an escape route. Both of them are potentially helpful in this context.
Or just simply play with a different mission lol. If it is only 35pts then I will seed something much easier. The requirements are not easy for a 35 pt mission.
4 skills? That's par for a 35-er, and none of the skills are hard to come by.

And the ship attribute requirement isn't that hard either if you build your deck for it. There's plenty of options.
User avatar
 
By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#483473
MidnightLich wrote:Welcome to today's First Edition Friday Question, where you get a chance to answer questions that will help shape the future of First Edition. This is the fourth installment of this series, and so far I think it's been going well. If you want to read up on or answer previous questions, here's a list:
20 SEP 2019: Which rules always confuse you?
13 SEP 2019: What do you think of [SPOILER]?
6 SEP 2019: Which card needs an alternate image (AI)?
30 AUG 2019: Which characteristic needs love?
WARNING: This thread will contain spoilers for a card that may appear in an upcoming expansion. If you aren't interested in that, please don't read on. The actual card is hidden, but might not be in the replies. Don't worry, we'll be back next week with a new, spoiler-free question.

We're working on a mission for The Neutral Zone, and the design team can't seem to agree on how many points the mission should be worth. In the spirit of communication and openness, we decided to ask you for your opinions.

Here's the mission - with the story details withheld - as it stands right now:

BIG SHIP MISSION
[S] Location withheld: Lore withheld.
Navigation x2 + Computer Skill + Stellar Cartography + (RANGE + WEAPONS + SHIELDS > 25)
Any crew may attempt [??]
[SPAN 6]


How many points should this mission be worth?

I know that we just did a public comment on a card in development two weeks ago, but this week is more about breaking the tie than anything else. Although, your comments and feedback on the mission itself are welcome too, we're particularly interested in how many points you think should be on the mission. 30? 35? 40? More? Let us know! Feel free to also pick it apart, talk about how you'll use it (or why you wouldn't), theorycraft, and more - like we could stop you!

You might be wondering why we're withholding the story for the mission. There are two reasons: a) the story we picked is a spoiler for something we haven't announced yet; and b) the story doesn't matter for the point value. We do have a story, we just want you to focus on the value of the mission in a vacuum instead of getting distracted by the story choice. I hope that makes sense. With all of that in mind, how many points should this mission be worth?

Have a great weekend! We're looking forward to seeing your discussions on this card. Don't forget that next weekend - October 4th, 5th, and 6th - is First Weekend, First Edition. If you play 1E, build decks, test decks, or anything in that space, post about it. If you post here on the forums, on The Dojo, on Facebook, or on Twitter with the hashtag #showusyourspaceline, you can win a fabulous prize!

-crp
The ship stats aren't that hard, any crew may attempt, skills pretty easy except Stellar. I'd say 35 points because of span. 30 points if span reduced
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

Thanks. :)