[BCSWowbagger]

Not for nothing, but the one time I tried Revised I actually enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun trotting out OTF-banned cards and the games themselves weren't particularly degenerate.

Maybe I'm a voice in the Wilderness, but when Revised got phased out I was sad to see it go.

Rules support and Design decisions both follow player decisions. If people started playing Revised again, we'd see more attention paid to Revised. If people started playing Block again, we'd see Design that acknowledges Block's existence again.

[SudenKapala]

Haven't yet followed this topic, too little time. I'm sure there are some great ideas for harvesting game ideas from other games. But my first thought is: none. 1e is already incredibly complex, and has a gazillion game mechanics. Have all the interactions between those mechanics, and all cards, already been explored? Do we need more mind-boggling concepts? Not convinced.
That's my first thought about it.

[Armus]

Not for nothing, but the one time I tried Revised I actually enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun trotting out OTF-banned cards and the games themselves weren't particularly degenerate.

Maybe I'm a voice in the Wilderness, but when Revised got phased out I was sad to see it go.

Rules support and Design decisions both follow player decisions. If people started playing Revised again, we'd see more attention paid to Revised. If people started playing Block again, we'd see Design that acknowledges Block's existence again.

This would be more convincing if the Revised and X-List formats weren't deemed to be obsolete in the presence of OTF. Kind of hard to base CC decisions on player input when the CC takes the decisionmaking out of players' hands.

Also, after TNG, it's pretty clear the later "block" rotations just didn't work very well (though I'll reserve judgment on Enterprise Block since I haven't played it) and even if the later blocks were good, DS9 Block seems to have poisoned the well.

Finally, isn't TOS Block still trying to make Block go? Or has it reached a point where "block" is simply shorthand for 3 sets with related themes? Serious question.

[BCSWowbagger]

Not for nothing, but the one time I tried Revised I actually enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun trotting out OTF-banned cards and the games themselves weren't particularly degenerate.

Maybe I'm a voice in the Wilderness, but when Revised got phased out I was sad to see it go.

Rules support and Design decisions both follow player decisions. If people started playing Revised again, we'd see more attention paid to Revised. If people started playing Block again, we'd see Design that acknowledges Block's existence again.

This would be more convincing if the Revised and X-List formats weren't deemed to be obsolete in the presence of OTF. Kind of hard to base CC decisions on player input when the CC takes the decisionmaking out of players' hands.

OTF came out in 2010. X-List/Revised were retired 1 January 2018. If anyone had been playing either format, they wouldn't have been retired. (Pretty much says as much in the article.) Very much a case of Rules following players.

Also, after TNG, it's pretty clear the later "block" rotations just didn't work very well (though I'll reserve judgment on Enterprise Block since I haven't played it) and even if the later blocks were good, DS9 Block seems to have poisoned the well.

Flat disagree on DS9 Block. I enjoyed that block and wish people had played it more.

The problem with Block, I think, was that it became a "solved" format very quickly. TNG Block lasted longer than most because (1) it was the first, so people were still figuring it out, and (2) it had BaH! in the block... but it just wasn't very hard to figure out how to play and win ENT Block. (I participated in what I believe is the only ENT Block tournament, post-LLAP pre-Cold Front. At the time, the answer was "play Wisdom Vulcans, watch them devastate Block's weak dilemmas" although the errata may have helped.)

Finally, isn't TOS Block still trying to make Block go? Or has it reached a point where "block" is simply shorthand for 3 sets with related themes? Serious question.

Depends whom you ask.

On the one hand, The Final Frontier was very definitely designed to support Block play without time locations, and there was an imperative in The Cage design to give the factions supported enough to work without external support . The Block Core List did get updated, eventually. There is a belief that there are casual players out there playing Block without sanctioned events.

On the other hand, the decision was made to leave ENT Block in Block for the moment, which rather undercut the "no time locations" intention. I honestly don't recall whether The Cage had Block-specific testing; if it did, it was very light. I know for sure that Cold Front wasn't tested for Block play. And I know that nobody's playing Block according to the official system.

So is Design still trying to make Block play a thing? I guess it's one of those glass half-empty/half-full things.

But what I know for sure is that Design would put MUCH more emphasis on designing towards it if anyone were playing it and reporting on it and talking about it here on the boards.

[Marauder Mo]

Some ideas, mostly from SWCCG

Area control mechanic sort of like Force Drains. Post Garrison is close.

Unique hand weapons matched to specific personnel, like Worf's Bat'leth, Janeway's Compression Rifle, Shinzon's Dagger, etc

Serialized missions, like completing Mission A is a requirement of completing Mission B, something like that. Not really from a game, just an idea.

Utinni Effects, like Rycars Run, Kessel Run, etc. Basically a card that's a macguffin and has to be retrieved and brought somewhere. Cargo Bay is kinda like that.

Rescue the Princess, Prisoner 2187, Slave Leia... Basically set up one of your personnel (or ship) as an opponent's captive (or commandeered) to be somehow rescued for a carrot.

Something like an indicator of unrest or something. Think Shadows or Threats from LotR TCG. Like every time there's a battle or mission attempt fails, add a token, then other effects key off the number of tokens.

[Ensign Q]

-normalized terms: not having a couple of different terms that mean the same thing. like "in orbit and orbiting". there are more.

-mtgs "stack"/ cleaned up timing system: between specials downloads, regular downloads, suspend play actions, interrupts, triggers and whatnots, its just a big pile of mess to figure out what happens first.
for example: kobayashi and ygii on the same mission.

[Slayer07]

Unique hand weapons matched to specific personnel, like Worf's Bat'leth, Janeway's Compression Rifle, Shinzon's Dagger, etc

Why stop there? Is there a possibility of events, interrupts or other cards that could be personnel specific? Even better if it works on any of those versions. It might give players incentive to use a personnel they might otherwise overlook.

[Takket]

Unique hand weapons matched to specific personnel, like Worf's Bat'leth, Janeway's Compression Rifle, Shinzon's Dagger, etc

This is very interesting.

Something like an indicator of unrest or something. Think Shadows or Threats from LotR TCG. Like every time there's a battle or mission attempt fails, add a token, then other effects key off the number of tokens.

Now this is really something I'd like... some kind of card that rewards you for interacting and punishes you for just sitting on your end of the spaceline moving around people and equipment from ship to ship as you try to pick your way through dilemmas (I.E. solitaire) Not a BRUTAL crippling punishment, but something mild.

[Ensign Q]

Now this is really something I'd like... some kind of card that rewards you for interacting and punishes you for just sitting on your end of the spaceline moving around people and equipment from ship to ship as you try to pick your way through dilemmas (I.E. solitaire) Not a BRUTAL crippling punishment, but something mild.

dilemma: "cant pass if you didnt battle this game"

we need the aggressive fed "enterprise C-set" for it though.

[AllenGould]

dilemma: "cant pass if you didnt battle this game"

I'll play that in my Borg deck.

[Iron Prime]

It would be nice to get more cards that you "give" your opponent - like Frozen Han from SWCCG.
This would allow you to play interactive decks without risking dead cards because your opponent isn't playing the 'right' deck for you to go against. Like some of the new Infiltration cards that came out recently (really love those, they are a good start) - or Officer Exchange Program where you get rewarded for battle but it becomes harder to actually blow up the ship (since you don't place the tactic)

[Discovery rox]

i actaully strongly disgaree with the idea of personnel specific hand weapons and to a lesser extent events and interrupts etc.

i think thats actually strongly against the themes and atmosphere of star trek and the point of star trek ccg. mains and there toys have a place in star wars, but not star trek.

it works in star wars ccg because that story is mythic. its about heroes and knights in shining futuristic armor. luke and vader having there special lightsabers makes sense. han being fated to change the galaxy when hes in the millenium falcon makes sense.

but star trek isnt about lone heroes or special people. everyone is talented, but there not more special then anyone else in the federatino or galaxy, there just the ones we focus on. picard and kirk are badasses but most starfleet captains are supposed to be badasses, they just dont have shows about them. worf is a great warrior but hes not the greatest warrior in the galaxy and probably not even the federation.

fate doesnt have a place in star trek. any well made batleth in worfs hands is going to be just as effectively used as the one he has in his quarters. even if janeway had attachment to a specific rifle for emotional reasons i dont think shed really shoot it any better then any of the other phaser rifles she can find in weapons lockers on voyager or deep space nine or the enterprise or anywhere else.

the same is true of the story in the game itself. star wars ccg really wants you to play out the stories as told in the movies, with only a little bit of remixing, in case you dont have all the right rare cards. star trek ccg is more about the endless possibilities, with infinite remixing. the romulans get the genesis device, not khan. spock becomes the arbiter of succession, not picard. etc.

plus, we already have specific personnel bonuses for mains and toys in star trek. thats what matching commander is about. i never felt comfortable with that, for the reasons above, but at least it makes a bit more sense that a ship is going to be run more effectively when the crew is following orders from the captain that there used to following orders from already, in a command style that theyve been molded to fit already.

and when star trek does become mythic, when some things in the galaxy truly are unique, they already have personnel specific stuff. thats what artifacts are for, stuff like the sword of kahless and datas head. making things like that which are just common equipment cheapens the mythic status in my opinion.

[Ensign Q]

hehe, i never questioned, how the matching commander improves the ship. matching enigneer would be better i guess

[Marauder Mo]

I agree with all that, STCCG definitely is at its best when you're more able to "plug and play" concepts (like Romulans using the Genesis Device for example). I guess I was just thinking in terms of after 25 years while we've been mining all corners of the Galaxy, what's something we haven't done much of yet. I don't think introducing Worf's Bat'leth (properly balanced) would be a terrible thing. I figured it would just be unique and do basically the same thing as a normal Bat'leth just +1 Strength to Worf or something. I don't think that would break Trek Sense or STCCG tradition.

Some existing examples of what I have in mind:
Kukalaka
Scepter of the Grand Nagus
Mr. Tricorder
Self-Sealing Stem Bolts

Doesn't have to be a Weapon card like in SWCCG that only works with a particular character, I just mean maybe are a little bit more specific than Starfleet Type-III Phaser Rifle and gives a little extra umph when paired with the specific personnel.

[jadziadax8]

You know, you guys just booted out a bunch of mechanics imported from another game.