[BCSWowbagger]

was there another first enterprise in tos or the movies? i thought, that was the overhauled E-A.

The original Enterprise, from "The Cage" through Star Trek III, was the U.S.S. Enterprise, NCC-1701 (aka the "1701" aka "no bloody A B C or D"). It was refit in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, then blew up at the Genesis Planet.

After that ship self-destructed, Starfleet built a replacement, which was used in Star Trek IV, V, and was decommissioned at the end of VI. That ship was the U.S.S. Enterprise, NCC-1701-A (aka the "Enterprise-A").

So when you talk about the Ent-A, people think you're talking about the second ship, the one from Star Trek IV-V-VI, not the original ship captained by Kirk, Pike, and apparently April because CBS has decided TAS is canon now.

I used to get these two ships confused, too.

[enabrantain]

Yeah, that's another thing I'd like to see... The USS Yorktown, supposedly, after the whale probe wrecked her it was decommissioned. Starfleet then hastily recommissioned her as the USS Enterprise-A at the end of Star Trek IV to replace the original USS Enterprise which was lost in Star Trek III. And that's why the USS Enterprise-A is broken mess at the start of Star Trek V.

I'd like to see the USS Yorktown from Star Trek: IV and the non-aligned 'Charriot of God' version from Star Trek V. Really, I would like to see a TOS Movies set altogether...

[Discovery rox]

the yorktown story is fan canon. the enterprise being broken down in star trek v was because it was a brand new ship.

[SudenKapala]

the yorktown story is fan canon. the enterprise being broken down in star trek v was because it was a brand new ship.

Wrong. There are licenced sources that do mention Yorktown. (They may not be true canon -- but certainly not just fan sources. Or is that what you meant?)
And But also, that was a brand new ship, so you're right about why it was glitchy. Yorktown was being built at the time Kirk and Co were rehabilitated for the Whale crisis; and even unfinished, the Yt was rechristened to E-A.

(aka the "1701" aka "no bloody A B C or D")

Recently saw Relics again. Genius.

[AllenGould]

([quote="SudenKapala"
Wrong. There are licenced sources that do mention Yorktown. (They may not be true canon -- but certainly not just fan sources. Or is that what you meant?)[/quote]

According to MemAlpha, a model kit claims it's the Yorktown, Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise says it's the "newly-built (but not yet commissioned)" USS Ti-Ho, and they don't say where the claim that it's the "also newly-built" Atlantis. (I suspect the "newly built" references are to square Scott's log of "This new ship must have been built by monkeys".)

So... Trek canon, everybody!

[Smiley]

Oh! I forgot one important piece.

Deckbuilding in less time
Right now it takes like a week or two to throw together a deck that you want to try out. This needs to come down. The game is just too complex and too many parts are connected to really make it interchangeable with another deck. Missions need to gel with Personnel and skills, Personnel and skills need to gel with current dilemma meta. Dilemmas need to work with how you plan your deck with other seed cards etc. It just takes too much time to build a deck and there is not way to just throw one together that will not get skewered by your opponent.

[Mogor]

Oh! I forgot one important piece.

Deckbuilding in less time
Right now it takes like a week or two to throw together a deck that you want to try out. This needs to come down. The game is just too complex and too many parts are connected to really make it interchangeable with another deck. Missions need to gel with Personnel and skills, Personnel and skills need to gel with current dilemma meta. Dilemmas need to work with how you plan your deck with other seed cards etc. It just takes too much time to build a deck and there is not way to just throw one together that will not get skewered by your opponent.

I kind of have to disagree here, one of the attractions of 1E is that decks aren't just thrown together

[Armus]

Oh! I forgot one important piece.

Deckbuilding in less time
Right now it takes like a week or two to throw together a deck that you want to try out. This needs to come down. The game is just too complex and too many parts are connected to really make it interchangeable with another deck. Missions need to gel with Personnel and skills, Personnel and skills need to gel with current dilemma meta. Dilemmas need to work with how you plan your deck with other seed cards etc. It just takes too much time to build a deck and there is not way to just throw one together that will not get skewered by your opponent.

I kind of have to disagree here, one of the attractions of 1E is that decks aren't just thrown together

This came up at the PoR on Sunday. I liked the answer I got from Charlie there:

As long as there are "basic" decks that can still compete (e.g., TNG Continuing Mission decks ) then the barrier to entry shouldn't be too high, so it's on us to keep a subset of easy to play decks competitive.

[Mogor]

I like that answer as well, and I have thought of the block format as sort of design's way of remembering to include the cookie cutter lego decks.

Decks that can do well, but if going up against an extensively designed deck may have a harder time

[Smiley]

The feedback I get from new players are that the game just gives to little back for what it's asking from a new player. The threshold for them to get going is way to high for someone new to just try the game out. Especially if they don't have all the card or can just print easy to understand and play decks from the site at a whim. And a deck should never have to be Competitive to be something a new player should have to endure to play. The words they use are Ease to build, Ease to understand and Ease to play. Competitive decks are seldom that.

We have to remember that when we started we had no idea what was a good deck, 363 cards total and there where only three affiliations (for most of us at least) to chose from. Now this is quite different.

They are looking for something that can be thrown together, changed and iterated a bunch of times and still get to play. If they come to a tournament and get eviscerated in the first round, few will come back let alone continue to play. at the same time, if you stick a competitive deck in their hands and they are not able to play the deck without resorting to a process scheme, we are probably shit out of luck as well. Now they have a deck that was supposed to be good that they lost with which makes them feel even worse.

[Takket]

The feedback I get from new players are that the game just gives to little back for what it's asking from a new player. The threshold for them to get going is way to high for someone new to just try the game out. Especially if they don't have all the card or can just print easy to understand and play decks from the site at a whim. And a deck should never have to be Competitive to be something a new player should have to endure to play. The words they use are Ease to build, Ease to understand and Ease to play. Competitive decks are seldom that.

We have to remember that when we started we had no idea what was a good deck, 363 cards total and there where only three affiliations (for most of us at least) to chose from. Now this is quite different.

They are looking for something that can be thrown together, changed and iterated a bunch of times and still get to play. If they come to a tournament and get eviscerated in the first round, few will come back let alone continue to play. at the same time, if you stick a competitive deck in their hands and they are not able to play the deck without resorting to a process scheme, we are probably shit out of luck as well. Now they have a deck that was supposed to be good that they lost with which makes them feel even worse.

Yeah the horse is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of the barn on that. The game is complicated and frankly someone shouldn't be able to walk in off the street and be competitive with a quickly built simple deck on day 1. And if people don't have the patience to take some lumps and accept the learning curve, this probably isn't the game for them.

We can't dumb the game down without MASSIVE bannings and rule changes that would ruin it.

The better thing to do is for experienced players, if they know newbies are around, to play down to the newbies level somewhat. don't show up at that tournament with a Borg deck that won worlds. TD's can institute some rules like reduced cardpools or even an open sealed deck where they can help the newbie build a deck on the fly and play it just to get the mechanics down.

but just like learning a sport you can't expect to hit 5 home runs the first time you play a baseball game. you are going to have to strikeout sometimes and the game shouldn't be changed to keep that person from quitting.

[kingmj4891]

Where do I want to see the game in 5 years?

1. End of Block - Block was great at TNG-block and even DS9-block was ok but mirror ruined it by cloning DS9 and then cranking up the power. ENT-Block was once again more of the same. Vulcans were unnecessary as well as expanding Starfleet and macos and made that block feel unneeded when the game needed freshness we got the same stuff over again and again.

2. Fix the ban list - It really speaks volumes at the lack of efforts of the CC has taken on this front and the fact that we have cards on the ban list for over 10 years is ridiculous. Fix them, even if they dont remotely resemble the original.

3. Forget about Newbies - The fact this game is 25+ years old and attracting new players is a fool's errand. This goal has probably hurt the core group of players available more than it ever helped, dumbing down the game for newbies is just dumb. I havent seen anything to suggest we have ever attracted new players either and have more likely driven veterans away in trying to make the game more palatable to noobs. It's a waste of resources the cc efforts should have always focused on returning veterans not noobs. No one new wants to play a 25 year old game that is more complex than anything else out there.

4a. Slow the game down - This is one effort that has had partial success. No more turn one mega downloads but games still end after 5 to 8 turns. We need more devastating dilemmas and creative interference options to slow things down, and yes make armada great again. A way to slow down free plays is also needed.

4b. Change the victory conditions timing- I would like OTF rules to take away the first turn advantage. Vicotry conditions could be checked as the first start of turn action. If either player has met the conditions 100pts etc etc game is over. Exception if you went second you have one more turn to tie or score more points. This will keep turns even and could encourage different deck styles and choices since its not all about speed speed speed.

5. Better Online Play - This game could thrive with good online play, but it seems the CC refuses to put any resources into it. When you have maybe 100 players worldwide not investing in a decent fair online play system seem ignorant . I want a worlds by 2025 to be Online.

*Overall I want this game to continue and thrive but I dont see it happening. I feel too much damage has been done already with choices made years ago
I quit due to lack of decent online play and set after set after set of same mechanics but different affiliations drove me off, in order to appeal to me again this game needs to really put out some more complex strategies and slow down the speed decks. Stop focusing on newbies like TNG Borg which is a great concept but was dumbed down so much it makes me think are they even trying anymore. The TNG borg could have been great but it was ruined for noobs who are not coming anyways. This should have always been about the veterans who have played and supported the game for years and I want to see it become that.

I want to play again but still dont see anything exciting to make me want to. Fix it.

[KazonPADD]

Stop focusing on newbies like TNG Borg which is a great concept but was dumbed down so much it makes me think are they even trying anymore. The TNG borg could have been great but it was ruined for noobs who are not coming anyways.

TNG Borg wasn't necessarily about "Newbies" - most of the target audience are still veterans, just "new to Borg". Even within the existing 1E community, many players have feared the complexity of Borg - we just tried to open that door for them. As a result we've heard many old players comment on these boards that they are now willing to "give them a go".

[Mogor]

Stop focusing on newbies like TNG Borg which is a great concept but was dumbed down so much it makes me think are they even trying anymore. The TNG borg could have been great but it was ruined for noobs who are not coming anyways.

TNG Borg wasn't necessarily about "Newbies" - most of the target audience are still veterans, just "new to Borg". Even within the existing 1E community, many players have feared the complexity of Borg - we just tried to open that door for them. As a result we've heard many old players comment on these boards that they are now willing to "give them a go".

Bingo, I would be one of them

[JeBuS]

Stop focusing on newbies like TNG Borg which is a great concept but was dumbed down so much it makes me think are they even trying anymore. The TNG borg could have been great but it was ruined for noobs who are not coming anyways.

TNG Borg wasn't necessarily about "Newbies" - most of the target audience are still veterans, just "new to Borg". Even within the existing 1E community, many players have feared the complexity of Borg - we just tried to open that door for them. As a result we've heard many old players comment on these boards that they are now willing to "give them a go".

Bingo, I would be one of them

Ditto. TNG Borg make me interested in playing Borg, which is something I haven't ever wanted to tackle before.