This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Trailblazer
#505272
Welcome to today's First Edition Friday Question, where you get a chance to answer questions that will help shape the future of First Edition. If you'd like to catch up on previous entries, here's a list of all of my previous Friday Questions:

20 MAR 2020: What regions should we focus on in the future?
13 MAR 2020: How would you feel about 1E adding extra "bits"?
6 MAR 2020: What are your favorite "almost good" S/P dilemmas?
28 FEB 2020: What are your favorite decks to play?
21 FEB 2020: Which Decipher expansion most deserves a sequel?
14 FEB 2020: Which "broken link" should be fixed first?
7 FEB 2020: What's your favorite episode of Star Trek?
31 JAN 2020: Which TOS main character needs a new card?
24 JAN 2020: What should qualify a card for the "watch list"?
17 JAN 2020: What card would you unban without changes?
10 JAN 2020: What single card would you ban to improve your game?
3 JAN 2020: What are you looking forward to in The Neutral Zone?
27 DEC 2019: How can we help you recruit new players?
20 DEC 2019: Where do you want the game to be in five years?
13 DEC 2019: Which concepts should 1E "import" from other games?
6 DEC 2019: Which couples should get a dual personnel card?
29 NOV 2019: Which old, unused 1E cards deserve some love?
22 NOV 2019: Which upcoming milestones need celebration?
15 NOV 2019: What's your favorite card image?
11 NOV 2019: What was your first 1E experience?
1 NOV 2019 What is your opinion of the "full page" policy?
25 OCT 2019: What do you want to see in a Halloween set?
18 OCT 2019: What is your favorite expansion?
11 OCT 2019: Which TNG main character needs a new card?
4 OCT 2019: Which Star Trek story needs more cards?
27 SEP 2019: How many points should [SPOILER] be worth?
20 SEP 2019: Which rules always confuse you?
13 SEP 2019: What do you think of [SPOILER]?
6 SEP 2019: Which card needs an alternate image (AI)?
30 AUG 2019: Which characteristic needs love?


Last night was the finale of the first season of Star Trek: Picard. Did you watch it? Are you going to? I believe CBS All Access is free right now, so if that's been a barrier for you watching either Picard or Discovery, now is a time to catch up. I won't talk about any spoilers here, but I was mostly satisfied with the inaugural season. I think it struck a good balance of world building, nostalgic, and social commentary.

One of the things that happened last night after the finale, since we know a Season 2 is coming, was that my roommates and I talked about potential stories moving forward. In particular, we talked about TNG characters we'd like to see. One of the characters that came up was Q, and there has been some talk internally about reviving the [Q] mechanic. I thought that would make a good topic for today's question.

Would you like to see the CC develop new [Q] cards?

The [Q] mechanic was introduced in 1996 in the Q Continuum expansion. If you aren't familiar with how it works, here's a quick breakdown: you seed a Q-Flash as a doorway, and within it you seed a bunch of the [Q] cards. You also seed copies of Q-Flash under missions (just like you would seed a dilemma). When an opponent's Away Team or crew hits one of the Q-Flashes, they face one card from the "Q Continuum" side deck for each personnel in the crew/Away Team. (If you play Second Edition, then you might recognize this mechanic as a prototype of the 2E dilemma mechanic.)

After the mechanic's introduction, it was only occasionally given new cards. Once the OTF rules were created, and dilemmas and cards that seed like dilemmas (including Q-Flash) were limited to two copies, it pretty much put a nail in the coffin of the mechanic. However, there has always been an undercurrent of interest in reviving the mechanic within the Department. When the TNG block was originally being designed, one of the earliest plans was to include a Q-themed expansion in the block. But at the time, there was very little interest in the mechanic getting developed. However, a lot has changed in the almost a decade since, so it's time to ask if we should develop new Q cards?

It won't be without challenges: after all, we'd need to figure out how to enable more Q-Flashes to go under missions. But there is a lot of Q story out there to tap into, and it would be a lot of fun to see it used again. What do you think? Should we do this? Should we let it die? Should it be reinvented? And if we do make new [Q] cards, which stories would be at the top of your list?

I sincerely hope that all of you are staying safe and sane in these uncertain times. If anyone needs to chat, I'm going to be holding weekly streams where we can talk about life and 1E. And you can always reach out to me via PM. Check on your friends as much as you can.

-crp
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#505282
AllenGould wrote:Nope.

Looking at the past poll of "we don't want new bits and bobs", I'd wonder why there'd be appetite for more piles of cards.

[Q] is our podracing. Let it die. :twocents:
Short answer: because cards aren't bits and bobs.

Also I thought [Trib] and [Trob] were the podracing that got left to die (maybe that can be a future 1EFQ topic...)
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#505283
Yes, I would like to see a return to Q-cards.

It was a mechanic that worked so well, 2E stole adapted it for all their dilemmas. ;)

There has to be a exception to the rule of 2 for it to be worth a seed slot however.

To me, there are several ways that come to mind immediately.
  1. The rule has an exception for either Q-Flash specifically (Q is beyond the rules), or doorways seeded as dilemmas.
  2. Q-Flashes themselves are errated, which is messy since the errata would only apply to one set of rules and not the other. I don't like this unless it's perhaps to add [Univ] , which then opens design space for other [Univ] dilemma seeds?
  3. Design more Q-Flash: cards, that would be like the Chula: set. Not the same, so they get around the rule of 2, and they could each have slightly different effects. Either different effects when encountered, or different ability from play from hand. This is probably the one I like best.

As far as what stories, the ones that come to mind are:

Voyager has the most untapped potential, as not much was done with those stories from a q-flash perspective.

and Q-Who.

Q-Who felt like Q at his deadliest (even though AGT should win that), but if you want to make the Q-Flashes have a spice of danger, Q-Who lets you mine that theme.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
Architect
#505284
We have Q-uality Time to get us up to four effective Q-Flashes. One more similar card would allow a player to get a Q-Flash to happen at all of their opponent's missions.
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 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#505289
Armus wrote:
AllenGould wrote:Nope.

Looking at the past poll of "we don't want new bits and bobs", I'd wonder why there'd be appetite for more piles of cards.

[Q] is our podracing. Let it die. :twocents:
Short answer: because cards aren't bits and bobs.
That would imply that we could add bits and bobs, so long as we call it a "side deck" :shifty:
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First Edition Balance Manager
By JasonRed3 (Jason Robinette)
 - First Edition Balance Manager
 -  
#505293
AllenGould wrote:
Armus wrote:
AllenGould wrote:Nope.

Looking at the past poll of "we don't want new bits and bobs", I'd wonder why there'd be appetite for more piles of cards.

[Q] is our podracing. Let it die. :twocents:
Short answer: because cards aren't bits and bobs.
That would imply that we could add bits and bobs, so long as we call it a "side deck" :shifty:
YES! lol

[Inc] Bits and Bobs
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
Praetor
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
1E American National Champion 2020
1E British National Champion 2020
2E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2020
#505296
More Q!!!! All the random and fairly insignificant side effects!!!!
 
By Spectre9
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#505302
JeBuS wrote:I think yes. But not as a priority over other things.
Pretty much this.

I'm not a big fan of Q cards but I wouldn't want to be in the "no never" camp. There's just so much other stuff I want to see first.

The challenge would be reviving the mechanic without making it unplayable.

Decipher had a crack with Beware of Q. I think the problem is Q cards are just difficult to balance. They have to be quirky to fit the theme of Q but can never really be kill dilemmas as Q isn't out to kill people just to mess with them.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#505305
AllenGould wrote:
Armus wrote:
AllenGould wrote:Nope.

Looking at the past poll of "we don't want new bits and bobs", I'd wonder why there'd be appetite for more piles of cards.

[Q] is our podracing. Let it die. :twocents:
Short answer: because cards aren't bits and bobs.
That would imply that we could add bits and bobs, so long as we call it a "side deck" :shifty:
As long as those bits and bobs are CARDS and not DICE or BEADS or whatever other randomness people were talking about, and as long as the side deck is optional, and costs a seed slot, sure. There's plenty of precedent for that.

Personally, I've always thought a [Door] Latinum Vault side deck would be a good addition to the 1e game. Give Ferengi a way to go Ferengi-ing around without overloading their deck with copies of Gold-pressed Latinum

:twocents: (or is it [Rule] [Rule] in this case? :wink: )
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First Edition Balance Manager
By JasonRed3 (Jason Robinette)
 - First Edition Balance Manager
 -  
#505306
Armus wrote: Personally, I've always thought a [Door] Latinum Vault side deck would be a good addition to the 1e game. Give Ferengi a way to go Ferengi-ing around without overloading their deck with copies of Gold-pressed Latinum

:twocents: (or is it [Rule] [Rule] in this case? :wink: )
It would be so amazing if you kept track of it with gold coins, though. :)

Or...
https://www.ebay.com/i/254463620768
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 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#505309
Armus wrote: As long as those bits and bobs are CARDS and not DICE or BEADS or whatever other randomness people were talking about, and as long as the side deck is optional, and costs a seed slot, sure. There's plenty of precedent for that.
What if the cards just had pictures of beads (or dice - I've got a very cool deck of cards that doubles as dice here at home). And we already have sites and missions (and out-of-play) as precedents for "piles of cards that don't count as seed cards but are part of your deck"...

(Yes, I am yanking you chain slightly, but a pile of cards to put on something to count isn't really different from a pile of beads, other than presentation.)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

Thanks. :)