This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Trailblazer
#515659
Welcome to today's First Edition Friday Question, where you get a chance to answer questions that will help shape the future of First Edition. If you'd like to catch up on previous entries, here's a list of all of my previous Friday Questions:

29 MAY 2020: What do you think of [SPOILER], a potential card from Project Londo?
22 MAY 2020: What is the worst affiliation in the game?
15 MAY 2020: Should bans be effective immediately?
8 MAY 2020: Which episode should inspire a boutique expansion?
1 MAY 2020: What was the best Star Trek gift you ever received?
24 APR 2020: How often do your [BB] dilemmas get scouted?
17 APR 2020: What do you want to know about how we work?
10 APR 2020: Should we make animated series cards?
3 APR 2020: Should we make more Tribbles/Troubles?
27 MAR 2020: Should we develop new [Q] cards?
20 MAR 2020: What regions should we focus on in the future?
13 MAR 2020: How would you feel about 1E adding extra "bits"?
6 MAR 2020: What are your favorite "almost good" S/P dilemmas?
28 FEB 2020: What are your favorite decks to play?
21 FEB 2020: Which Decipher expansion most deserves a sequel?
14 FEB 2020: Which "broken link" should be fixed first?
7 FEB 2020: What's your favorite episode of Star Trek?
31 JAN 2020: Which TOS main character needs a new card?
24 JAN 2020: What should qualify a card for the "watch list"?
17 JAN 2020: What card would you unban without changes?
10 JAN 2020: What single card would you ban to improve your game?
3 JAN 2020: What are you looking forward to in The Neutral Zone?
27 DEC 2019: How can we help you recruit new players?
20 DEC 2019: Where do you want the game to be in five years?
13 DEC 2019: Which concepts should 1E "import" from other games?
6 DEC 2019: Which couples should get a dual personnel card?
29 NOV 2019: Which old, unused 1E cards deserve some love?
22 NOV 2019: Which upcoming milestones need celebration?
15 NOV 2019: What's your favorite card image?
11 NOV 2019: What was your first 1E experience?
1 NOV 2019 What is your opinion of the "full page" policy?
25 OCT 2019: What do you want to see in a Halloween set?
18 OCT 2019: What is your favorite expansion?
11 OCT 2019: Which TNG main character needs a new card?
4 OCT 2019: Which Star Trek story needs more cards?
27 SEP 2019: How many points should [SPOILER] be worth?
20 SEP 2019: Which rules always confuse you?
13 SEP 2019: What do you think of [SPOILER]?
6 SEP 2019: Which card needs an alternate image (AI)?
30 AUG 2019: Which characteristic needs love?


Hello and welcome to another Friday Question, where you guys get to help shape the future of the game. This weekend, on Sunday, June 7th, we'll be having International First Edition Demo Day! This day-long event will see volunteers from the Department of First Edition and the Continuing Committee available to answer questions about 1E, Lackey, online play, virtual cards, and more. I hope you'll come out and join us and help us spread the love of First Edition, and maybe get a game in or two.

Since demo day is going to put a focus on new and returning players, I thought that would be a great focus for today's question. Old games and complex games often have a high "barrier to entry," a term which represents the difficulty of getting into the game and/or learning the game. The higher the barrier, the more work a potential new player has to do to get into the game. As First Edition is both an old and a complex game, we have a pretty high "barrier to entry" overall.

What do you think is the game's biggest barrier to entry?

Do you think it's the number of cards? The number of affiliations? Card types? The rules? Lack of players? All are valid answers that we've talked about at one point or another. If you're a veteran player, a lot of this will be invisible to you - you've already overcome the barrier! But think about trying to teach a friend, or a family member, to play - what would they stumble on that you take for granted?

If you're one of the new or returning players, I'm especially interested in hearing your feedback. If you've recently found this site via the Facebook group or Google searching, what have you found that's tripped you up? What's keeping you from playing more, or getting deeper in the game? What do you find to be 1E's biggest barrier to entry?

Have a great weekend!

-crp
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Trailblazer
#515661
eberlems wrote:For me it's the wording on cards, that need glossary and rulebook to confirm what it should do.
Looking those things up doesn't work well during a game.
Are there specific words that trip you up? Or specific cards?

-crp
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
President
Community Contributor
#515690
I find it's the cumulative effect of small bad moments, where the new player increasingly feels confused by her own deck and alienated from her own game, like she's not really in control anymore and the game is now just a thing that is happening to her.

Every player can absorb a few little exceptions and complexities, but a new player has to deal with huge amounts of novel and complex gametext plus loaded rules plus unavoidable rules subtleties. I can explain the [1E-AU] icon as a "restricted" icon that requires special permission to play reasonably well, and I can just about get the player to understand why Assign Support Personnel with Dominion War Efforts is an orders-phase action rather than a play-phase action, but then I try to explain why a [DL] works during a mission attempt while an Interrupt doesn't and I lose 'em. These aren't ultra-competitive decks, either. Just basic solvers trying to follow relatively simple archetypes without being completely detached from how the game is played.

We've talked a great deal about loaded rules / rules complexity in the past, here and elsewhere, and we'll probably never stop.

But I do think we sometimes overlook how intimidating and overwhelming it is that we have so many non-dilemma seed cards that have so much gametext on them. Maybe even the mere fact that we have so many non-dilemma seed cards. Even if the effects are fundamentally simple (which they usually aren't -- Continuing Mission may be the greatest card of all time, but it is nightmarishly confusing), new players have to absorb a whole lot of it, on both sides of the table, right at the start of the game, before they get to do anything, and (unlike in normal CCG's), none of it is spaced out by the taking of turns. This is very hard.
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Second Edition Rules Master
By Marquetry
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
Pioneer
2E Canadian National Runner-Up 2019
#515694
The large number of complicated cards, especially seed cards as mentioned... and you can't always take the time to read cards you aren't familiar with, you just have to hope your opponent is playing them correctly.

If I was just starting now, I wouldn't want to bother with something so complicated (cards, rules, interactions). It's just the overwhelming combination of all of it.
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By eberlems
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Explorer
#515714
Guess the current gametext of Hologram Ruse would be:
Unless INTEGRITY>30 and CUNNING>30 all your personnel are stopped.

Things like Assimilation are not on cards and Assimilate Planet just state "Assimilated. Place on mission. May download one Objective card." and then there is the rule book with
Borg Rule: Planetary Assimilation

Typically, when the Borg complete scouting a planet, the Objective targeting the planet states that the entire planet is assimilated.

When you assimilate a planet, any opposing personnel, equipment, and landed ships on that planet are assimilated. Moreover, any opposing facilities at that location, all personnel and equipment in or aboard those facilities, and all ships docked there are also assimilated. Only the personnel and equipment aboard a docked or landed ship escape assimilation.

The affiliation of an assimilated facility changes to [Bor], and you may report cards to it in accord with normal native quadrant reporting rules.

[Bor] Borg may acquire seeded artifacts only if permitted by a card. If not, any artifacts (or cards seeded like artifacts) are placed face up on the planet and may be later acquired by [Bor] Borg if permitted by a card (such as Survey Drone), or by any non-[Bor] personnel present. Mission attempts may not be made at assimilated planets, and the mission affiliation icons become irrelevant: facilities requiring a matching affiliation icon may no longer be built there.
It's just not a good start to play against that objective when you are not aware of these rules yet.
Stop First Contact is even worse.

Echo Papa 607 Killer Drone Is there any battle not counting as a seperate battle?

Q's Tent: Civil War "face up cards" and deckbuilder says "any number of Q the Referee Side Deck" in that pile. Who can look at those?

Long-Range Scan ten seconds is hard to enforce and new players can't read that fast.

Founder Architect not being a persona of Founder

Lack of Preparation Jean-Luc can't use the Borg staffing icons.

Can I play 2 Parallax Arguers just to score 0+5 points?

Lore Returns not requiring Lore

...
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By Mr.Sloan
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E Austrian National Second Runner-Up 2020
#515742
Rules are surely a big issue.

Videos of how to learn the game step by step + maybe strategic videos for beginnerns e.g. use AMS, use free play/ draw engines would be also great.

I might be willing to do the german language part, if someone does the english version.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
President
Community Contributor
#515792
FranklinKenter wrote:1. The Basic Rulebook is 89 pages. In contrast, most modern customizable games, even of comparable weight, have rulebooks that are considerably less. Nor is there a how to play video.
The Complete Rulebook is 89 pages. The Basic Rulebook is only 33.

I think you might argue quite reasonably that the 55 pages that are in one but not the other are the root cause of a lot of the difficulties people have with this game.

I second the need for a learn-to-play video. OKCoyote, if you see this, what became of that project?
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By Smiley (Cristoffer Wiker)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#515820
The biggest is hard. I'm making a top 10 list instead as it is Friday!

1. Rules complexity.

2. Complexity of card text.

3. Too many card in card pool.

4. Threshold and time consumption for building decks.

5. The Problem with balancing decks when you can have any number of copies of cards.

6. Too much things to be done in one turn (economy of things)

7. Too many choices a turn (game complexity vs. depth).

8. Length of play.

9. Aged UI

10. The lack of updated starter with each expansion and other similar activities (Duel decks etc.)
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#515823
the amount of rules and complexity of the rules...... it takes a serious investment of time to get into this game and people these days have extraordinarily short attention spans. That's the biggest hurdle you face. Human nature. Nothing you can do about that.

Also you have physical cards. Young people hardly even know what paper is. They play games on line, read books online, pay bills online...... etc......

Once you've pared down on the people on the planet that might actually play this game.......

I'm a Star Trek Fan (specifically of the shows that went off the air 20 years ago) + I like playing lengthy games + I'm willing to learn the rules + I have a playgroup + I have time to play ---> You've already eliminated all but a few thousand or so people on the planet. Now you have to FIND them, or them find you, and hope they don't go "wow that defiant card is cool" and then never visit the site again.

I've seen CC post on twitter a few times to #startrek when the main @startrek account is asking about something, and i think this is a good idea. You've got to get people here in numbers (and they can't go to a site if they don't know it exists) and i like what others suggested that a "welcome to CC/1E" series of youtube videos might be helpful (posted on the homepage). They should be short, sweet, (short attention span!) and LACKING in too many details. Your goal is to get people to want to dive deeper into the site and hopefully sign up.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
President
Community Contributor
#515843
FranklinKenter wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:
FranklinKenter wrote:1. The Basic Rulebook is 89 pages. In contrast, most modern customizable games, even of comparable weight, have rulebooks that are considerably less. Nor is there a how to play video.
The Complete Rulebook is 89 pages. The Basic Rulebook is only 33.
...
Then perhaps the Basic Rulebook should be listed more prominently on the front page (i.e, above the Rulebook). I never saw there was a "Basic Rulebook." I assumed the "Rulebook" was the "Basic Rulebook" and I feel confident I would not be the only person to make that mistake.
I think what we really need is a redesigned website with space to explain things like this prominently and usefully to all users. Now who's the lollygagger who is supposed to be working on that?

(...uh-oh it me)
 
By Spectre9
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#515893
The answer to the question is.

The willingness of people to put in the time it takes to learn all the little rules quirks to play the game properly.

I play online and I know there are heaps of times when my opponent and I have to agree to have a quick pause to the game to quickly search the glossary to make sure we are getting the rule correct.

I think you just need to accept the game is wicked complicated and that's part of the fun of 1e. Make it less complicated and it's a different game. Does the complexity restrict the player base? I would say yes but not as much as the fact the game has been out of print for nearly 20 years.

I see on the Facebook group people just want to play with physical original cards so I think printing cards not made by Decipher is a close 2nd to my original answer.

The question we should be asking is maybe how to make printable TrekCC made cards more friendly and accessible for people out there interested in the game.

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