This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#516665
As a new player I will chime in. More new player resources would be great. By far the most helpful thing I have found is the 13 or so power point presentations. My only concern with them is they are old and potentially parts are obsolete. An update or even summary of what is incorrect/different today would be great. Some more resources like this that brings it all together with an example game would be amazing.

I watched the recently posted video from the demo day and that was great too. I didn’t see it live and found myself with many questions throughout though. Should have written them down at the time, but some more videos like this would be good. This was by far the best beginner video I have seen.

If it doesn’t exist a short document, ideally max one page, of all gameplay terms that have rules behind them. Searching through the rulebook can take awhile, even searching through the pdf can be difficult as the terms are used all throughout. A few that I have come across for example: leader, compatible, matching

I thought a one-page when printed rules summary could also be helpful. I started trying to do this myself including turn structure, card types, battling. But it quickly ballooned to 3+ pages, so maybe this just isn’t possible.
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By Nerdopolis Prime (Nerdopolis Prime)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#516714
Coloradog1 wrote:As a new player I will chime in. More new player resources would be great. By far the most helpful thing I have found is the 13 or so power point presentations. My only concern with them is they are old and potentially parts are obsolete. An update or even summary of what is incorrect/different today would be great. Some more resources like this that brings it all together with an example game would be amazing.

I watched the recently posted video from the demo day and that was great too. I didn’t see it live and found myself with many questions throughout though. Should have written them down at the time, but some more videos like this would be good. This was by far the best beginner video I have seen.

If it doesn’t exist a short document, ideally max one page, of all gameplay terms that have rules behind them. Searching through the rulebook can take awhile, even searching through the pdf can be difficult as the terms are used all throughout. A few that I have come across for example: leader, compatible, matching

I thought a one-page when printed rules summary could also be helpful. I started trying to do this myself including turn structure, card types, battling. But it quickly ballooned to 3+ pages, so maybe this just isn’t possible.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Your input holds great value for the CC when it comes to improving their ressources.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#516775
Without having read thr whole thread, id go with complexity of the game. The complexity is, for a veteran, the best part about the game. It just also happens to be the worst for a newer player.
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By PantsOfTheTalShiar (Jason Tang)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#521935
PantsOfTheTalShiar wrote:The game isn't fun -- at least not the simplified/intro version of it.
I want to go back and elaborate on this. Let's go through some things that I like about 1E, and how well the starters deliver each of them.

-Nostalgia for Star Trek
Yes, its good that the starters are based on the most popular Trek series.
-Nostalgia for the game I played in the 90s.
Not really. The templates are familiar, but most of the cards aren't.
-Deck building: being creative, and getting to see my opponent's creativity.
No.
-The people I play with.
If with friends, yes; but then almost anything is fun. If with strangers, probably no.
-Making decisions about starting mission attempts.
No. A new player generally doesn't know about what dilemmas they need to play around, and Trek knowledge doesn't help them assemble teams. (At least with Premiere, you were rewarded by having SECURITY on a planet, ENGINEER in space, and MEDICAL everywhere.)
-Making decisions during dilemma encounters (including "your choice" and "opponent's choice" selections)
Somewhat. It looks like there's a small amount of this, but I'd have to play the starters again to see how much this comes in to play.
-Figuring out how to pass dilemmas. (Misinterpreted History, though it has its problems, is at least an interesting puzzle to solve.)
Somewhat. Same as above.
-Making decisions about battling or avoiding battle.
No, intros usually ignore battle.
-Making decisions about using limited resources (I'm thinking of cards like Make it So, Assign Support Personnel, Defend Homeworld, etc.)
Not really, the overly complicated Get It Done is the only example of this.

So what is actually fun here? Coming of Age certainly was an improvement, but in retrospect I wonder if the designers and playtesters (including me) were focused on the wrong things.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#521991
PantsOfTheTalShiar wrote:
PantsOfTheTalShiar wrote:The game isn't fun -- at least not the simplified/intro version of it.
I want to go back and elaborate on this. Let's go through some things that I like about 1E, and how well the starters deliver each of them.

-Nostalgia for Star Trek
Yes, its good that the starters are based on the most popular Trek series.
-Nostalgia for the game I played in the 90s.
Not really. The templates are familiar, but most of the cards aren't.
-Deck building: being creative, and getting to see my opponent's creativity.
No.
-The people I play with.
If with friends, yes; but then almost anything is fun. If with strangers, probably no.
-Making decisions about starting mission attempts.
No. A new player generally doesn't know about what dilemmas they need to play around, and Trek knowledge doesn't help them assemble teams. (At least with Premiere, you were rewarded by having SECURITY on a planet, ENGINEER in space, and MEDICAL everywhere.)
-Making decisions during dilemma encounters (including "your choice" and "opponent's choice" selections)
Somewhat. It looks like there's a small amount of this, but I'd have to play the starters again to see how much this comes in to play.
-Figuring out how to pass dilemmas. (Misinterpreted History, though it has its problems, is at least an interesting puzzle to solve.)
Somewhat. Same as above.
-Making decisions about battling or avoiding battle.
No, intros usually ignore battle.
-Making decisions about using limited resources (I'm thinking of cards like Make it So, Assign Support Personnel, Defend Homeworld, etc.)
Not really, the overly complicated Get It Done is the only example of this.

So what is actually fun here? Coming of Age certainly was an improvement, but in retrospect I wonder if the designers and playtesters (including me) were focused on the wrong things.
Thank you for this, it's really insightful. It's clear that we need something to differentiate between a deck designed to teach the game and a deck designed for beginners to play the game. Often we conflate the two, but as you suggest, that might be the wrong choice.
 
By greenfelt
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#522113
Coloradog1 wrote:As a new player I will chime in. More new player resources would be great. By far the most helpful thing I have found is the 13 or so power point presentations. My only concern with them is they are old and potentially parts are obsolete. An update or even summary of what is incorrect/different today would be great. Some more resources like this that brings it all together with an example game would be amazing.

I watched the recently posted video from the demo day and that was great too. I didn’t see it live and found myself with many questions throughout though. Should have written them down at the time, but some more videos like this would be good. This was by far the best beginner video I have seen.

If it doesn’t exist a short document, ideally max one page, of all gameplay terms that have rules behind them. Searching through the rulebook can take awhile, even searching through the pdf can be difficult as the terms are used all throughout. A few that I have come across for example: leader, compatible, matching

I thought a one-page when printed rules summary could also be helpful. I started trying to do this myself including turn structure, card types, battling. But it quickly ballooned to 3+ pages, so maybe this just isn’t possible.
I'm a former player just returning to the game. Never played in tournaments, but I had several friends that I would always play with when we were younger. We recently discovered this site and it's sparked our interest once again. I have to admit that we're still trying to get used to the site and figure out how things work.

Still, the post above certainly resonates with me. Bringing in new players means that there needs to be a simplified onboarding process for those players. I can't seem to find the video and the powerpoints Coloradog1 viewed, but maybe if there could be some dedicated area to the site that's easily found, that might help with that.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#522164
greenfelt wrote:Still, the post above certainly resonates with me. Bringing in new players means that there needs to be a simplified onboarding process for those players. I can't seem to find the video and the powerpoints Coloradog1 viewed, but maybe if there could be some dedicated area to the site that's easily found, that might help with that.
We do need this dedicated area. For the time being, though, the powerpoints are here (Open format, not OTF, so yes they are outdated): https://starshipexcelsior.com/othersites/stccg1e/

And the demo is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fecjrBr8o6g

AllenGould has another demo tape he hasn't posted yet, cough.

Sidebar:
coloradog wrote:If it doesn’t exist a short document, ideally max one page, of all gameplay terms that have rules behind them. Searching through the rulebook can take awhile, even searching through the pdf can be difficult as the terms are used all throughout. A few that I have come across for example: leader, compatible, matching
Any other examples? Because this sounds... intriguing.
 
By greenfelt
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#522165
BCSWowbagger wrote:We do need this dedicated area. For the time being, though, the powerpoints are here (Open format, not OTF, so yes they are outdated): https://starshipexcelsior.com/othersites/stccg1e/

And the demo is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fecjrBr8o6g

AllenGould has another demo tape he hasn't posted yet, cough.
Thank you! I've got the video saved to watch later, and I'll take a look at the other items soon too!
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#522192
BCSWowbagger wrote:
coloradog wrote:If it doesn’t exist a short document, ideally max one page, of all gameplay terms that have rules behind them. Searching through the rulebook can take awhile, even searching through the pdf can be difficult as the terms are used all throughout. A few that I have come across for example: leader, compatible, matching
Any other examples? Because this sounds... intriguing.
I ran with this. Would something like this be useful to new (or established) players? This is a draft without any icons, but I can certainly add the icons if there's feedback to support it.

Star Trek CCG: Rules Summary Sheet

It's designed to be printable on a single two-sided sheet of paper. If I add more stuff, I'll just delete the "WEIRD STUFF" section at the end, which is kind of optional anyway.

It occasionally sacrifices precision for brevity -- e.g. the gender rule is wrong, but not in a way that ordinarily matters. And it essentially ignores Borg rules.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#522257
BCSWowbagger wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:
coloradog wrote:If it doesn’t exist a short document, ideally max one page, of all gameplay terms that have rules behind them. Searching through the rulebook can take awhile, even searching through the pdf can be difficult as the terms are used all throughout. A few that I have come across for example: leader, compatible, matching
Any other examples? Because this sounds... intriguing.
I ran with this. Would something like this be useful to new (or established) players? This is a draft without any icons, but I can certainly add the icons if there's feedback to support it.

Star Trek CCG: Rules Summary Sheet

It's designed to be printable on a single two-sided sheet of paper. If I add more stuff, I'll just delete the "WEIRD STUFF" section at the end, which is kind of optional anyway.

It occasionally sacrifices precision for brevity -- e.g. the gender rule is wrong, but not in a way that ordinarily matters. And it essentially ignores Borg rules.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I think this is a great document.

(Is the Planet Killer/"planetary destruction" rule in the Glossary somewhere? I remember searching for it some time back and couldn't find it... it's mostly intuitive but not entirely, e.g. that cards played on the planet are discarded too.)
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#522277
Thanks, gents.
Rachmaninoff wrote:(Is the Planet Killer/"planetary destruction" rule in the Glossary somewhere? I remember searching for it some time back and couldn't find it... it's mostly intuitive but not entirely, e.g. that cards played on the planet are discarded too.)
It's under Missions: Converting to Space, which I agree is not the easiest location to remember.
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#522439
BCSWowbagger wrote:
BCSWowbagger wrote:
coloradog wrote:If it doesn’t exist a short document, ideally max one page, of all gameplay terms that have rules behind them. Searching through the rulebook can take awhile, even searching through the pdf can be difficult as the terms are used all throughout. A few that I have come across for example: leader, compatible, matching
Any other examples? Because this sounds... intriguing.
I ran with this. Would something like this be useful to new (or established) players? This is a draft without any icons, but I can certainly add the icons if there's feedback to support it.

Star Trek CCG: Rules Summary Sheet

It's designed to be printable on a single two-sided sheet of paper. If I add more stuff, I'll just delete the "WEIRD STUFF" section at the end, which is kind of optional anyway.

It occasionally sacrifices precision for brevity -- e.g. the gender rule is wrong, but not in a way that ordinarily matters. And it essentially ignores Borg rules.
Awesome. Exactly what I was looking for. Will print and try this out. Thank you very much!
Question for noob

Awesome. Thanks everyone for all the help!

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