[MidnightLich]

Hello and good day to you First Edition fanatics. I apologize for the brief delay in getting the next step moving, but now we're back on track with Step 3 of Will of the Collective VIII. If you aren't familiar with Will of the Collective, it's a community-driven card design process by which you guys, the community, makes a card from start to finish. This time around, we're making a card to close a broken link. You've submitted some brilliant card concepts, and now all of you are going to get the chance to vote on which one we'll use moving forward.

Instead of the usual "first past the post" voting method, we're doing a new type of voting this year called approval voting. In this model, you can vote for all of the options of which you approve. Your number of votes can be zero (0) and it can be fifteen (15), though it will likely be in the middle. The option with the most votes of approval moves forward; in the event of a tie, there will be a traditional vote run-off to break the tie.

Please note that, because we had more than fifteen (15) submissions, some curation was required. I outlined my guidelines for curation in the previous posts, but if you have any questions about why an idea didn't make it to this list, please feel free to reach out and I'll try and explain.

Here are the fifteen (15) card concepts submitted by you, the community.

A consumable asset that gives a generic bonus to anyone, but a better bonus to Klingons or personnel.

A card that stops x personnel to for a bonus (better for ) or makes a personnel become

Gagh could be an "ingredient" that a chef/cook could use to make something else.

A card that one shot, as an action interacts with either a personnel at a promenade location or a personnel at any location to (get a cookie). Draw cards equal to the number of cooks present.

A non-era/non-property logo tied equipment card that can be discarded for a benefit. Benefit should be tied to Klingons (or Riker) and possibly cooks.

A bonus to Klingons (race) and penalty (strength, diplomacy?) to all other non-cooks. Effect could be situational, like in personal battle or when facing dilemma at location. Bonus/penalty amount could be based on time left on countdown because of freshness requirement.

I could see Gagh giving a strength or some other bonus (as they look forward to the meal) while present, and at some point you can discard it (they eat it) for a bonus (card draw, or unstopping a Klingon). I would add a countdown timer of 2 or 3, to represent that Gagh should be eaten fresh.

A card that works as a personal treaty. A specific personnel targeted by the card may mix and cooperate with other affiliations. Card design should include an effort to encourage card use over just including another treaty card (e.g. reduce play cost by changing card type, add immunities, not restrict it to specific target affiliations.

A card to allow certain cards to nullify other certain cards (like last function of Terran Flagship: Predator)

A card that allows play or download of a Klingon to the location of a cook and makes the Klingon compatible with the cook's affiliations.

A card that provides rapid, situational access to a range of situational Klingon-themed cards, reinforcing the affiliation's flavor.

A card that either prepares Klingons for battles or awards them for completing missions.

A card that provides a challenge to non-Klingons present with your Klingons.

A card that provides a temporary boost to Klingons, getting slightly better if played in conjunction with a cook.

A permanent card which probes for various bonuses and penalties

As you can see, there are some very generic concepts here as well as some that are more specific. But all of these have options we can explore moving forward, so I hope you'll take the time to read them over, discuss them, and vote for the ones you like.

Voting will be open until this poll closes around 10:45 AM Pacific on Wednesday, November 11th. Remember, vote for every option you approve of and would like to work on - the one with the most votes wins! We had at least forty-eight (48) voters last time - can we match that? Your votes decide!

-crp

[MidnightLich]

There is some weird formatting going on with this poll that I can't figure out, but it does work. Please click on the text of the concepts, as that will check the appropriate box.

-crp

[BCSWowbagger]

I'm gonna put this out there:

Attribute modifiers make sense. They're where my mind goes. They're what I have written in personal "broken links ideas" files. They fit with the lore pretty well. They fit nicely with the idea of giving an extra bonus to players who "are playing only ". I'm glad somebody suggested them, because somebody had to, just so we could have this discussion.

But doesn't the idea of adding yet another attribute modification tool to 1E's stuffed library of cheap, cumulative attribute modifiers kinda make your skin crawl? It sure does mine. This is an area of the game that'd be easy to add to, but only because the space has been so thoroughly explored before (and, I suggest, largely exhausted). It seems to me that, if we go this route, Gagh can only turn out one of two ways:

(1) Binder fodder
(2) Overpowered

I don't think there's a middle ground there, because so many attribute modifier tools already sit at the edge of the power envelope, and can't be displaced without breaking the game.

I'm open to being swayed on this if somebody has a promising new approach to attribute modifiers that's somehow different from the last 25 years of attribute modifiers... but, at the moment, I'm inclined to vote only for proposals that don't involve attribute bonuses.

Does that seem reasonable, or am I judging attribute manipulation too harshly?

[JeBuS]

@BCSWowbagger Not to mention they slow the game down. I wonder how much time per game is spent doing 3rd grade mathematics?

[geraldkw]

I'm gonna put this out there:

Attribute modifiers make sense. They're where my mind goes. They're what I have written in personal "broken links ideas" files. They fit with the lore pretty well. They fit nicely with the idea of giving an extra bonus to players who "are playing only ". I'm glad somebody suggested them, because somebody had to, just so we could have this discussion.

But doesn't the idea of adding yet another attribute modification tool to 1E's stuffed library of cheap, cumulative attribute modifiers kinda make your skin crawl? It sure does mine. This is an area of the game that'd be easy to add to, but only because the space has been so thoroughly explored before (and, I suggest, largely exhausted). It seems to me that, if we go this route, Gagh can only turn out one of two ways:

(1) Binder fodder
(2) Overpowered

I don't think there's a middle ground there, because so many attribute modifier tools already sit at the edge of the power envelope, and can't be displaced without breaking the game.

I'm open to being swayed on this if somebody has a promising new approach to attribute modifiers that's somehow different from the last 25 years of attribute modifiers... but, at the moment, I'm inclined to vote only for proposals that don't involve attribute bonuses.

Does that seem reasonable, or am I judging attribute manipulation too harshly?

I agree that attribute modifiers are boring and we have enough options. Therefore if we choose one of ideas that involves giving personnel a bonus, it should be some kind of bonus that doesn't involve attribute modifiers .

Maybe something like "Opponent can not choose this personnel for any game choice unless this personnel is your only personnel available to choose."

Or an effect that gives bonus points if the personnel solves a mission this turn, or stuns(or mw) someone in battle, or helps overcome a dilemma(I don't think this effect exists at all in the game yet).

[Borg King]

I really like the idea of it as a permanent probing card as you can give different levels and kinds of bonuses depending on how your deck is made.

This card could be available and useful for every affiliation but be better for a specific faction or affiliation. For example, one probe could give you an okay bonus; like if you probed an or a , but if you probe you get a better bonus, and if you probed it's an even better bonus than that!

Those are just examples, but the idea is that everyone can eat gagh, but some like it more than others, and even still there are people who are really into gagh.

[Enabran]

Like on Visit Cochrane Memorial:
[probe], [probe]: "Oooh.".....
[probe], [probe]: "Mmmmmh." ...
[probe], [probe]: "Wow!" ....
[probe], [probe]: "Ugh!" ...

[Boffo97]

Like on Visit Cochrane Memorial:
[probe], [probe]: "Oooh.".....
[probe], [probe]: "Mmmmmh." ...
[probe], [probe]: "Wow!" ....
[probe], [probe]: "Ugh!" ...

BRB, giving VCM an "M" rating.

[MidnightLich]

...and if you probed it's an even better bonus than that!

I don't want to stifle creativity, but I also don't want you guys to get your hopes up. The rules for probing really don't work the way we would like with "phantom" icons. That means and can't be probed for in this context. You could, but it would only trigger on a card that has the icon printed - it would never trigger on a Klingon with a ST: DS9 property logo. For this reason, we've never done it and I'd advise against it.

-crp

[Iron Prime]

Can we probe for property logos?

[MidnightLich]

Can we probe for property logos?

I don't see how that would fit on a card. I'll ask the Rules Team.

-crp

[10and01]

This card could be available and useful for every affiliation but be better for a specific faction or affiliation. For example, one probe could give you an okay bonus; like if you probed an or a , but if you probe you get a better bonus, and if you probed it's an even better bonus than that!

I also like the idea of the download of situational Klingon-themed card access. It'd be cool if one of the probe outcomes was something like "Download to hand an or with "Klingon" in lore" or something like that.

[AllenGould]

Can we probe for property logos?

I don't see how that would fit on a card. I'll ask the Rules Team.

-crp

If memory serves, property logos look like absolute *trash* at inline-text size. (I seem to remember trying to use them on Continuing Mission.)

[Armus]

I gotta be honest. Visit Gagh Memorial holds zero appeal for me.

Let's not overcomplicate this. It's entirely possible to make a straightforward yet fun and thematic card.

We're not breaking any Warp barriers or conquering sectors... it's gagh. It's a snack. A fun snack, but a snack nonetheless. Let's not go overboard.

[geraldkw]

I gotta be honest. Visit Gagh Memorial holds zero appeal for me.

Let's not overcomplicate this. It's entirely possible to make a straightforward yet fun and thematic card.

We're not breaking any Warp barriers or conquering sectors... it's gagh. It's a snack. A fun snack, but a snack nonetheless. Let's not go overboard.

It's funny how people wanted to make Gagh, but they also want to make some crazy complex engine. Possibly some people got here late and didn't get to vote for which card but are now voting for card concepts, or voted for Gagh as a choice B or C but still want to do some kind of fancy verb tech.

I think given that most people never get to design cards, that they want to create a very playable/cool card, not more binder fodder like Raktajino.