[AllenGould]

Why bother with empok? Use ds9 with klingon restaurant at bajoran wormhole. Or put your empok at klingon planet, a mission unlikely to be stolen by your non- Opponent.

I was having the same thought. If you just need a reporting place, you can even skip Ops and any other sites you don't need. DS9 + Klingon Restaurant is basically an Klingon Outpost.

[Armus]

Why bother with empok? Use ds9 with klingon restaurant at bajoran wormhole. Or put your empok at klingon planet, a mission unlikely to be stolen by your non- Opponent.

I was having the same thought. If you just need a reporting place, you can even skip Ops and any other sites you don't need. DS9 + Klingon Restaurant is basically an Klingon Outpost.

Sure, but then you're either sacrificing a mission slot or adding a seed slot to get Bajoran Wormhole into play.

Not sure that's worth it until/unless we get a Bajor Region mission.

[AllenGould]

Sure, but then you're either sacrificing a mission slot or adding a seed slot to get Bajoran Wormhole into play.

Not sure that's worth it until/unless we get a Bajor Region mission.

Throw an Espionage in.

[Armus]

Sure, but then you're either sacrificing a mission slot or adding a seed slot to get Bajoran Wormhole into play.

Not sure that's worth it until/unless we get a Bajor Region mission.

Throw an Espionage in.

Which espionage would you throw in?

Also, how does that help with Stop Kirk Contact bonuses?

[AllenGould]

Which espionage would you throw in?

Well, huh. No Klingon *or* Fed Bajor Region missions. Whaddyaknow.

Also, how does that help with Stop Kirk Contact bonuses?

My thought is that you still have an attemptable mission. You'd still have five other +10 missions, so you only really need this one to be attemptable in case your opponent decides to be cheeky and assumes you can't solve it. (And turns out they'd be correct, since Klingons can't attempt anything in Bajor Region!)

[SudenKapala]

Thanks, all.

RIght, if your affiliation doesn't have access to a standard Nor you need Empok, which needs either Mining Survey or a universal mission. Either choice means you have a stealable mission.

I thought that Mining Survey was pretty bulletproof, given the need for an Ore Proc Unit...? And currently, I (with my deck) could have seeded Ferengi Infestation, and/or other Empok dilemmas, so... Isn't that a big deterrent? Must I fear the theft of my Nor? When it's uncontrolled, or after I control it -- is controlling opponent's (my) Nor really a thing?

[Borg King]

Wouldn't Docking Ports be enough? Use the Cargo Bay to fetch Barry Waddle who has the Computer Skill which would allow the docking of any ship just to pick him up and go on.

Or am I missing a rule here? I'm usually missing something when I come up with this stuff...

[SudenKapala]

Bumping this; I'd really like to know.

Thanks, all.

RIght, if your affiliation doesn't have access to a standard Nor you need Empok, which needs either Mining Survey or a universal mission. Either choice means you have a stealable mission.

I thought that Mining Survey was pretty bulletproof, given the need for an Ore Proc Unit...? And currently, I (with my deck) could have seeded Ferengi Infestation, and/or other Empok dilemmas, so... Isn't that a big deterrent? Must I fear the theft of my Nor? When it's uncontrolled, or after I control it -- is controlling opponent's (my) Nor really a thing?

Please also don't forget the King's question in the above post!

[Rachmaninoff]

My (probably reflecting my playstyle as much as anything else)... most of the time I'm not going to pick a fight to commandeer a Nor, but if you happen to leave your Ops empty I may as well take it. If there's a 40-point mission I can grab there it ups the benefit.

I *have* seen dedicated "anti-Nor" decks which were built to commandeer but only at points in history (and play environments) where you saw a lot of Nors in the metagame. I've not had my Nors commandeered often, but once or twice I dropped my guard and paid the price. Once I fell victim to a pre-errata Devidian Door which dropped someone right into Ops!

Back to Waddle specifically, you're right that it does take a little bit of effort to steal Mining Survey. And if you're playing Empok Nor you should invest some resources to defend it (leaving some people in Ops, seeding Sisko 197, and so on). This ties back to Armus's point... yes, you can use a Cargo Bay to download Barry Waddle. But if you do that, you need a Nor and the right mission, if it's Empok you may have to overcome some dilemmas, you need to protect it, and so on. If you are building your deck to take advantage of a Nor already, that's fine. (And Klingons can do plenty with a Nor, Empok armadas were a terror back in the day) If you just want to play Barry Waddle it's a lot more straightforward to just play a Q's Tent from your hand. That's what I've always done with Stop Kirk Contact... but like Armus is saying I am seeing more pros to doing the Nor version now...

Edit: to Borg King's question, I suppose if you seed a generic Nor rather than Empok then a docking site and Cargo Bay is probably enough. Waddle's Computer Skill will let your Klingon ships dock/undock there to pick him up. That should protect you from all but the most dedicated commandeerers (who bring along their own sites) but it also cuts off a lot of other Nor benefits for you too.

[SudenKapala]

Thanks a lot, Rachmaninoff! That was a big help.

Now, the only questions I still have:
1) why is a generic ( ❖ and/or ?) Nor so much different for, say, ? Or, alternatively, why is Empok Nor so great for ? Wait-- no, still confused. OK: why does it matter which affiliation you play a Nor with? Can't you just make it match , and thus compatible with any other affiliation...? (I guess I always thought the only difference in using it, is that Empok takes more preparation and time, but delivers on the "found" there. But I am definitely still missing something, where Nors are concerned!)

2) Are there any ways to defend you Empok, other than those presented above by Rachmani?