This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
 
By lotjx2
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#547420
Should they have countdowns on them due to the changeling disease? I get the restriction on Founder Leader but Odo seems to be able to do a lot more.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#547469
I made a version of Sim once that had a countdown. That was fun. Card got cut, though, for lots of reasons.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#547473
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:04 pm I made a version of Sim once that had a countdown. That was fun. Card got cut, though, for lots of reasons.
if it was rules fuss, you should sort that out. it opens design space
 
By HoodieDM
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#547496
To report a personnel and then have them be killed off in 2-4 turns is cool concept, but many people might not play them then. They'd have to be super skill worthy, but then that might be too powerful. It's a cool concept, and maybe some day.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#547500
It was because the card was trying to do Event stuff. Personnel aren't Events. (Sorry Lakanta.)
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#547502
It's also an Organized Play / board state nightmare. All of our existing countdown cards are always face up, so both players can monitor them. And people still forget to count down sometimes! Even with the ability to "rotate" the card as a reminder. None of that is an option for a personnel, and if they then help solve a mission two turns after they count down, that's an unfortunate situation.

Sometimes, there being design space isn't enough to justify something.

-crp
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#547503
HoodieDM wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:22 pm To report a personnel and then have them be killed off in 2-4 turns is cool concept, but many people might not play them then. They'd have to be super skill worthy, but then that might be too powerful. It's a cool concept, and maybe some day.
Timicin calls out from the binder.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#547505
Professor Scott wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:47 pm
HoodieDM wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:22 pm To report a personnel and then have them be killed off in 2-4 turns is cool concept, but many people might not play them then. They'd have to be super skill worthy, but then that might be too powerful. It's a cool concept, and maybe some day.
Timicin calls out from the binder.
Exactly. :thumbsup:

It's a neat theoretical idea, but when the cardboard hits the table, folks are gonna pick the personnel that doesn't have an expiration date.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#547512
To be fair, Sim's countdown icon was [9], because he had a lifespan of 9 days, so it was mostly symbolic.

But that ran into another problem: the officially recommended method for handling countdowns is to rotate them 45 degrees per count, which gets hard to track for counts over 4. (And you'll notice that, indeed, the only way to get countdowns over 4 is by doing weird stuff to X like scoring a really, really good hit with Linguistic Legerdemain.)

In short: there's lots of stuff the game has never done, and it often turns out there was actually a reason for not doing it -- many of which I discovered by blundering into them on Design teams!

My concept for Sim was cool, and, now that I've looked him up again (UP link for those with access) I want to re-pitch him as an [Int] to some Design team somewhere -- but he was a good cut at the time.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#547543
HoodieDM wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:22 pm To report a personnel and then have them be killed off in 2-4 turns is cool concept,
but many people might not play them then. They'd have to be super skill worthy, but then that might be too powerful. It's a cool concept, and maybe some day.
My understanding is that this is basically how the new Legend of the Five Rings was built by FFG. You overpay when you play characters and that his how many turns they stay in play. Neat idea, I'm not sure how to translate it to Trek though - or if we should...
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#547589
MidnightLich wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:47 pm It's also an Organized Play / board state nightmare. All of our existing countdown cards are always face up, so both players can monitor them. And people still forget to count down sometimes! Even with the ability to "rotate" the card as a reminder. None of that is an option for a personnel, and if they then help solve a mission two turns after they count down, that's an unfortunate situation.

Sometimes, there being design space isn't enough to justify something.

-crp
the same applies to great teacher though
 
By HoodieDM
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#547605
Iron Prime wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:18 pm
HoodieDM wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:22 pm To report a personnel and then have them be killed off in 2-4 turns is cool concept,
but many people might not play them then. They'd have to be super skill worthy, but then that might be too powerful. It's a cool concept, and maybe some day.
My understanding is that this is basically how the new Legend of the Five Rings was built by FFG. You overpay when you play characters and that his how many turns they stay in play. Neat idea, I'm not sure how to translate it to Trek though - or if we should...
Yep and the game was overly complicated and now dead after 3 years. Though the latter is probably more related to do FFG :lol:
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#547618
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:02 am
MidnightLich wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:47 pm It's also an Organized Play / board state nightmare. All of our existing countdown cards are always face up, so both players can monitor them. And people still forget to count down sometimes! Even with the ability to "rotate" the card as a reminder. None of that is an option for a personnel, and if they then help solve a mission two turns after they count down, that's an unfortunate situation.

Sometimes, there being design space isn't enough to justify something.

-crp
the same applies to great teacher though
It does to a degree, but earning an Artifact is a noteworthy occurrence in a game. Playing personnel isn't. That noteworthiness helps mitigate the difficulty.

I am not saying it's impossible and that we won't do it. I am just saying it's got a lot of issues.

-crp
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