This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#550257
I presume (making a pres out of u and me) that a lot of [1E-TNG] [Bor] use They Will Be Coming. Since TWBC doesn't let you seed any non-Alpha Quadrant missions, that means you can't seed any Borg outposts.

Thus if the ship you download with TWBC is destroyed, commandeered or otherwise out of your control, there's not much you can do for the rest of the game.

Which opens up another way to tech against this tactic. Don't use TWBC. Seed a [1E-DQ] mission and an outpost and stock multiple ships. If one gets taken, report another.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#550278
ok there are outs for borg, if you heavily alter the deck to (almost) unplayability against normal decks.

thats NPE and still doesnt answer my initial question why everything else is banned then.
 
By HoodieDM
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Socialite
#550293
HoodieDM wrote:
Ensign Q wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:37 pm Borg in essence are NPE because they dont do anything any other affiliation does, so whose doing the NPE'ing here?
so u wanna remove borg from the game now? or is this just an unconstructive posting?
No. You're the one bitching about NPE. Yet YOU are the one playing Borg.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#550294
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:58 am ok there are outs for borg, if you heavily alter the deck to (almost) unplayability against normal decks.

thats NPE and still doesnt answer my initial question why everything else is banned then.
3x Quinn hardly breaks TNG Borg. If anything, I've found it improves it a lot.

You can go 30 card Borg drag racer and be faster, or you can go 50 card Borg, maybe be a half tick slower, and as a tradeoff be able to deal with some stuff.

Either way is acceptable, just know that you're trading speed for redundancy/versatility.

Which is better is an exercise I'll leave to the individual.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#550313
yeah, but we are not talking 3x quinn, we are talking a mission choice that allows for building an outpost + the required seedslots +tentslots and whatnot, just to dodge getting outgunned.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
Praetor
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
1E American National Champion 2020
1E British National Champion 2020
#550318
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:20 am yeah, but we are not talking 3x quinn, we are talking a mission choice that allows for building an outpost + the required seedslots +tentslots and whatnot, just to dodge getting outgunned.
TO be fair, having the option for an outpost is a strong response to a lot of tactics (also lets you speed through a cytherians if your Q gets picked by MH, other battle tactics, etc) as far as a q tent slot, it is one that gives you a lot of flexibily)
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#550328
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:20 am yeah, but we are not talking 3x quinn, we are talking a mission choice that allows for building an outpost + the required seedslots +tentslots and whatnot, just to dodge getting outgunned.
Patrol Neutral Zone can fit seamlessly into a TNG Borg deck, provides a Neutral Zone location Nebula, and is an easy add that your opponent will have to cover, even if you have no intention of attempting it.

Alternatively, Kobayashi Maru can go on any Nebula to make it targetable by Consume: Technology.

Bottom line, you have options, and those options don't have to make your deck suck.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#550333
Also, once players start teching to take out a strategy, the player who came up with the strategy will stop using it and you don't always have to prepare for it. Metagame working as intended.

If there are reasonable ways around it, it's not a Negative Play/Player Experience. You might feel bad that you can't play exactly the deck you wanted but you might as well be trying to claim NPE solely for losing the game.

As far as New Player Experience goes, I'll repeat what others have said that 1E players should not even attempt Borg until they have standard affiliations down pat. Way too many moving parts.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#550404
I repeat thats wrong. Borg has way less moving parts than any other affiliation, especially tngborg. its the simplest affilation in the game.

beside, you dont just have an outpost by seeding pnz, you need to have like 4/6 nebulas to start at a nebula or you wont build one. that telegraphs youre playing borg that you run into other problems.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#550429
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:35 pm I repeat thats wrong. Borg has way less moving parts than any other affiliation, especially tngborg. its the simplest affilation in the game.

beside, you dont just have an outpost by seeding pnz, you need to have like 4/6 nebulas to start at a nebula or you wont build one. that telegraphs youre playing borg that you run into other problems.
Are you running into shenanigans pre-attempt? (I'm guessing if so it's Baryon).

That's a different problem than the Scout Encounter nonsense that this whole thread has been about, and is best dealt with by using a Swiss army tent slot for a Kevin Uxbridge: Convergence.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#550443
i played convergence and still lost to baryon.
guys, im playing borg for 15 month straight now. i know all the quirks in deckbuilding and i still lost every game to niall.

there are just too many angles to take tngborg out of the game completely
i suggest playing the deck, im out of this theorycrafting here
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#550498
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:30 pm i played convergence and still lost to baryon.
guys, im playing borg for 15 month straight now. i know all the quirks in deckbuilding and i still lost every game to niall.

there are just too many angles to take tngborg out of the game completely
i suggest playing the deck, im out of this theorycrafting here
I've played TNG Borg twice in the last year, including at (not a) Worlds. I specifically made it a point to learn how to play them so I could properly assess them and see if my initial impressions were right or wrong.

Yes, if people are specifically teching for it, then you might find yourself having a rough go. But that's true of any deck. Even Battle Borg and Dominion Hack-and-Slash - two of the toughest decks to beat - can have a rough time if a tier one player decides that they're going to build a deck specifically to beat them.

Sorry you don't like this discussion, EQ, but I think it's good to have anyway, for posterity if nothing else.
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Director of Organized Play
By LORE (Kris Sonsteby)
 - Director of Organized Play
 -  
Alpha Hunter
1E North American Continental Champion 2019
1E Andoria Regional Champion 2021
W.C.T. Chairman's Trophy winner 2014-2015
#550499
EDIT: Post Deleted. Apologies to all.
Last edited by LORE on Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#550500
my main argument is the inconsistency what is banned and what is not, nobody addresses anyway.

also the infinite techloop of counterwars is ignored.


its just another forum "discussion" of "youre wrong and we know better."

lore, you are just toxic, i dont care about your posts lol.
User avatar
 
By Keiimaster (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#550521
Redacted
Last edited by Keiimaster on Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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