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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#550507
You didn't click the Direct Link button before copying the search url... and no, you don't mess with Named In Lore rules to fix 5 personnel.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#550515
If you expand out to cover all of PAQ, you can add John Doe
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#550537
Personally, I would rather see Dr. Beverly Crusher, Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Commander William T. Riker and Lieutenant Worf as cards (and Dr. Crusher for John Doe). I also think Data should have been titled Lt. Commander Data, since all three of the broken links he 'fixed' referenced that title.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#550540
Personally, they could simple bold the name and not the rank and that fixes most of them:

Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Lt Worf
Lt Commander Data

etc.

I don't think Decipher planned on persona rules when they made these cards and most certainly didn't consider Romantic Partners at the time.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#550680
winterflames wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:20 pm But then Neela Daren would be a persona of Picard?
Isn't she though?

And fair enough, we already have Bold having a meaning and Italics having a meaning so many we could errata everyone and use Underline?

J/K!!!!
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#550687
GooeyChewie wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:30 am Personally, I would rather see Dr. Beverly Crusher, Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Commander William T. Riker and Lieutenant Worf as cards (and Dr. Crusher for John Doe). I also think Data should have been titled Lt. Commander Data, since all three of the broken links he 'fixed' referenced that title.
That was our intent, and was his name for most of production, but it ran into other rules / player confusion problems.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#550693
GooeyChewie wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:30 am Personally, I would rather see Dr. Beverly Crusher, Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Commander William T. Riker and Lieutenant Worf as cards (and Dr. Crusher for John Doe). I also think Data should have been titled Lt. Commander Data, since all three of the broken links he 'fixed' referenced that title.
My ideal solution is the Taris solution: just errata the cards so that the work the way everyone expects them to work. It's the best kind of errata - the one no one even really needs to know about.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#550699
edgeofhearing wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:08 pm
GooeyChewie wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:30 am Personally, I would rather see Dr. Beverly Crusher, Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Commander William T. Riker and Lieutenant Worf as cards (and Dr. Crusher for John Doe). I also think Data should have been titled Lt. Commander Data, since all three of the broken links he 'fixed' referenced that title.
My ideal solution is the Taris solution: just errata the cards so that the work the way everyone expects them to work. It's the best kind of errata - the one no one even really needs to know about.
:shifty:
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#550714
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:57 pm That was our intent, and was his name for most of production, but it ran into other rules / player confusion problems.
Fascinating. I'm curious, what rules / player confusion did that bring up?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#550717
I'll boil down several hours of discussion to one sentence, because it was the clinching argument (and not one that Dan or Moskop or I came up with -- it actually came up from the community, and then we just saw it and were like, "aw crap"):

"I don't want to have to explain to a player that we have a new Data who is the same as Data (Premiere) in almost every way, represents the TNG Data, who dates Jenna D'Sora and is a friend to Keiko... but he can't observe greatness because he's not that Data somehow."

Basically, any Data who fixed these unintuitive broken links would necessarily be so similar to original-flavor Data that it would create unintuitive confusingness in the other direction, making a bunch of cards that reference "Data" by card title suddenly weird.

The rejoinder was: "well, the game has weird stuff like that anyway and it's legally fine." Which is true.

But the rejoinder to that was, "but the whole reason for this card is to try to make the weird but legally fine stuff less weird, and instead we're making some things less weird while making some other things more weird."

(And it's not just Historical Poker Game; that was just the example that came up. There's a number of cards that name Data specifically, and which would be bizarre not to have work with "Lt. Commander Data," like Investigate Time Continuum.)

So Lt. Commander Data was renamed to Data (Cold Front), we "fixed" as many links as we could given the space in his lore box, and that was that. I think it was the right call -- but then, I would, since I was on that team that got persuaded it was the right call. You might not agree.

I have since joined #TeamErrataTheWeirdPremiereLoreReferences, although that hashtag is too long for a practical Twitter campaign.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#550747
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:30 pm ...
Basically, any Data who fixed these unintuitive broken links would necessarily be so similar to original-flavor Data that it would create unintuitive confusingness in the other direction, making a bunch of cards that reference "Data" by card title suddenly weird.
...
Interesting. I consider Sutherland-commanding Data to be quite a bit different from original-flavor Data. I find it quite a bit weirder that this Data only sort of fixes the broken links than I would find it if he couldn't play in the Historical Poker Game. And a quick search shows most (all, I think) of the other Data-specific cards say "any Data."

Maybe I see it that way because I started in 2E. Commanding Officer is quite a bit different from Pinocchio in that game. Beyond even Commanding Officer's odd order, the fact that he has the [E] icon instead of the [TNG] really differentiates him.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#550770
Also, this is kinda the whole *point* of personas mechanically - you can have multiple versions of a personnel that don't cover every use.
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