This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#551894
Armus wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:21 pm
Hoss-Drone wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:17 pm
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:58 pm I should think about this more, but, off the top of my head?

There was a cluster of common/uncommon dilemmas from around the DS9 era that appeared a LOT in my little neighborhood kid playgroup. I have very fond memories of Garanian Bolites and Isolinear Puzzle being actually pretty decent.

That's probably one reason I'm such a strong advocate for Shades of Gray.
I've been advocating for years that Ds9 needs it's own shades of gray help. Back in the 90's I played with aphasia device a lot and wish i could again.
You mean back when games ran enough turns that Aphasia Device was a legit threat to wipe a whole crew?

I don't think a SoG card solves that problem.
I would leave that to the imagination of whoever might try.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#551895
Most of the time, I feel like making old cards more playable is more of a design team role than a balance team role. We just need a [WC] The Chase card or a Time Location for All Good Things or Yesterday's Enterprise, and all of a sudden a lot of old cards become more playable.

Here's one that is for sure within the balance team's purview though: Continuing Mission.

Yes, it's still plenty playable. I want it to be more interesting though: I liked the gameplay and deckbuilding puzzle of maximizing your personnel to get two draws out of them. I want it back.

I know that, to get it back, I need to accept a different nerf in exchange, because it was really powerful with two draws. What I'd love to see is a return to two draws, but reducing the number of skill dots the personnel can have in order to qualify for draws. Even dropping it to three knocks out the worst offenders from The Next Generation and Coming of Age, and makes those personnel a choice rather than cards that are just strictly better than all of the low-density personnel from the PAQ expansions. But hey, if I need to see it drop to two dots, I'll take it.

The other benefit of going back up to two draws is that TNG decks will get their card play back. There are a lot of fun, older cards that don't play for free that would get better if you aren't stuck using your card play on your draw engine. I want to use those cards in my nostalgia decks, but I need my card plays back!
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#551899
JasonRed3 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:00 pm
DarkSabre wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:49 pm Stuff
Most of that seems to be pretty far off-topic. :(
Not really. OTF as it stands with certain rule & design decisions have made many many many cards become binderfodder and accelerated the use of some cards that in some corners of the community are asking for them to be revised or banned (AMS, ASP, Q Tent as a download bank, etc)

If the balance team wants to change how we view what cards are binder fodder or not then yeah one would need to look at the broader picture of why this topic was even made to begin with or why we even have to have a discussion about it.
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#551900
edgeofhearing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:16 pm Most of the time, I feel like making old cards more playable is more of a design team role than a balance team role. We just need a [WC] The Chase card or a Time Location for All Good Things or Yesterday's Enterprise, and all of a sudden a lot of old cards become more playable.

Here's one that is for sure within the balance team's purview though: Continuing Mission.

Yes, it's still plenty playable. I want it to be more interesting though: I liked the gameplay and deckbuilding puzzle of maximizing your personnel to get two draws out of them. I want it back.

I know that, to get it back, I need to accept a different nerf in exchange, because it was really powerful with two draws. What I'd love to see is a return to two draws, but reducing the number of skill dots the personnel can have in order to qualify for draws. Even dropping it to three knocks out the worst offenders from The Next Generation and Coming of Age, and makes those personnel a choice rather than cards that are just strictly better than all of the low-density personnel from the PAQ expansions. But hey, if I need to see it drop to two dots, I'll take it.

The other benefit of going back up to two draws is that TNG decks will get their card play back. There are a lot of fun, older cards that don't play for free that would get better if you aren't stuck using your card play on your draw engine. I want to use those cards in my nostalgia decks, but I need my card plays back!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

To be honest Continuing Mission wasn’t that bad when you remember that it was during the era of no printability & unlimited downloads. As I said, any set or card designed before those changes need to be relooked at.
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First Edition Art Manager
By jjh (Johnny Holeva)
 - First Edition Art Manager
 -  
#551903
I would love to see a "Return to The Next Generation"- type of project that puts a 2021 polish on important Verbs from that era of sets, as well as supplementing that batch of cards with Helpers/Episode Theme-ing/Simple Fun.

Make it so…
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First Edition Balance Manager
By JasonRed3 (Jason Robinette)
 - First Edition Balance Manager
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#551916
jjh wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:13 pm I would love to see a "Return to The Next Generation"- type of project that puts a 2021 polish on important Verbs from that era of sets, as well as supplementing that batch of cards with Helpers/Episode Theme-ing/Simple Fun.

Make it so…
This would be a great way to rotate the cards back in once they had already rotated out. ;)
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Achievement Master
By SirRogue
 - Achievement Master
 -  
#551918
jadziadax8 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:21 pm One of the things that surprised me when I returned to the game was how <Quark's Isolinear Rods> had fallen out of favor...
Maggie, this is in almost every first draft deck I build, and almost always ends up being my 31st seed card and gets pushed out onto the cutting room floor. I think this is largely due to the priority for cards that either get personnel directly into play, or verbs I have to seed at the start or not at all. Getting a cool personnel in hand to start with, but there are just so many verb setup seeds now that deck setup is more more valuable to start with when most of my deck is going to be personnel I can draw into because of the setup. Unless that CSx2 personnel is first-turn crucial to my deck (Lewis Zimmerman in a [Holo] deck, et al), QIR usually gets muscled out.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#551919
And that’s pre much what I figured was going on for most people, @SirRogue.
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
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#551923
Red Alert! was such an iconic card, i'd like to see it have some use. "once per turn you may download a personnel that you are allowed to play for free." Just spitballing. if you are short a personnel in hand that you can play for free, this let's the resource not go to waste but costs you your download in the process.

Q is also something else that was iconic but has been rendered useless. The Discard Dilemma on this card was the killer. Q should have been left as at least a wall after the NPE part was removed.

:twocents:
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Achievement Master
By SirRogue
 - Achievement Master
 -  
#551932
It would be great to have a reason to play all those espionage cards. The idea was fun, but with so many missions, there is no significant reason to seed something you can't attempt only to have to draw and play an event to get to attempt it. It would be fun to have something interesting, like Bajoran Resistance Cell to do with those (and more useful than Plans of the TS/OO). Each affiliation's could have it's own flavor. Like something to do with the Section 31 Loyalty Test idea from March Madness.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#551935
winterflames wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:12 pm I want a reason to play small ships like Mirandas oberths or even the plain old runabouts.

A reason to fly science vessels and the unique Excelsiors Mirandas etc.
I like this! :) Didn't we have a quite creative discussion about this, some months (or a year) ago? How were small ships made interesting...? :shifty:
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#551961
During the many years playing through the Decipher days I never got to see or experience any infiltrating. I've never heard anyone say "Reporting X Founder" or "Joining your crew or away team" as an infiltrator. Has anyone heard the words "X is exposed" in a game?

Current rules on infiltration:
https://www.trekcc.org/op/1e_rulebook/#INFILTRATE

I think the infiltration concept is sound and could be rather fun, but the player trying to infiltrate is losing a personnel and associated skills and abilities to do this, making the cost prohibitive. This is not even going to happen unless the players gets a compatible infiltrator to hand in the first place.

IMO, there needs to be some seedable card that allows any personnel with an infiltration icon to be compatible with any non-Borg(?) affiliation without any prior action. Perhaps limiting that card to shapeshifter/changelings only makes the most Trek-sense.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#551966
Went through a bunch of Premiere Federation ships at some point, so continuing on, I would like to put in a word for Gomtuu and Edo Vessel. The game introduced ship punting at some point, which was the most amazing thing ever. Well maybe not ever, but that's where the CC comes in.

Meanwhile Edo Vessel is like our very own version of Chaos Orb (at least for those who flipped the Vessel itself for the 50/50, which was pretty wild). It surely deserves better!
jjh wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:40 pm I wish with all of my 1E Heart that Premiere U.S.S. Enterprise was a better card to play than Chain of Command U.S.S. Enterprise.

That Wall of Ships download keeps the magnificent Premiere card in my binder.
Yeah, the Chain of Command version has a lot going for it. But... I still use the Premiere one anyway (and leave out the Wall, so I guess that is a card slot saved).
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By geraldkw
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#552244
Hoss-Drone wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:17 pm
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:58 pm I should think about this more, but, off the top of my head?

There was a cluster of common/uncommon dilemmas from around the DS9 era that appeared a LOT in my little neighborhood kid playgroup. I have very fond memories of Garanian Bolites and Isolinear Puzzle being actually pretty decent.

That's probably one reason I'm such a strong advocate for Shades of Gray.
I've been advocating for years that Ds9 needs it's own shades of gray help. Back in the 90's I played with aphasia device a lot and wish i could again.
When I saw Dangerous Derelict I thought we would get more cards to boost DS9 "bad" dilemmas eventually but we really haven't (outside of maybe gender related dilemmas which are still pretty bad even when downloaded).
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