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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#552716
Mr.Sloan wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:33 pm [Door] Memory Alpha
Seeds on table, download The Charybdis. Seed exactly 6 different [Art] under here, except Kurlan Naikos, Hogh´n and [Art] starting with "T". You may not seed [Art] or seed Insurrection. [Art] you download must come from here. Once per turn you may do so (ignoring [1E-AU] ) if you solve a [1E-P] mission (random selection) or your choice, if your 2 archeology present.
:P How much of that is tongue-in-cheek?
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#552729
i can't really see anything broken about being allowed to seed multiple artifacts at a mission. let's be real people aren't going to be earning 6 from a mission because you are giving up dilemmas/draw/play engines every time you seed an artifact.

the only exception i see if getting persistence of memory and mona lisa at one mission is going to be an NPE
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#552826
JeBuS wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:20 pm
stressedoutatumc wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:05 pm I actually had this convo with my playgroup not too long ago. Artifacts really don't seem very "worth it" anymore, tbh. The only ones we are playing are the ones that come as a download in some fashion.

Maybe a solution would be errating missions to make them download to seed-able. Or, to make them downloadable through objectives. Both have backing in the lore of the ST universe. Bottom line, unless Horgan is unbanned, I don't know what artifact is really worth a seed slot.
How about an Objective that says something along the lines of:
[Obj] Archaeological Expedition
Seeds on table. When you complete a mission without earning any artifacts, you may download an artifact (as if earned) which could be seeded there.
Takes the "cost" of using artifacts away. (Well, still 1 seed for the objective, but additional artifacts are free.) Lots more room for text, if you come up with something troubling that needs a limiter.
I think you’d need something more specific or limit it to once per game, only planet missions, or maybe only applicable if you have a certain skill set, but that skill set should be steep. Like 2xArcheology, 2xAnthropology, and 2x Geology OR 3x Acquisition. If the benefit is so broad, the cost of acquiring should be hard to achieve. It also makes it a risk for the attempting player since those skills are at risk by the dilemma. You’d have to deckbuild if you want to get those artifacts.
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#553047
JeBuS wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:20 pm
stressedoutatumc wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:05 pm I actually had this convo with my playgroup not too long ago. Artifacts really don't seem very "worth it" anymore, tbh. The only ones we are playing are the ones that come as a download in some fashion.

Maybe a solution would be errating missions to make them download to seed-able. Or, to make them downloadable through objectives. Both have backing in the lore of the ST universe. Bottom line, unless Horgan is unbanned, I don't know what artifact is really worth a seed slot.
How about an Objective that says something along the lines of:
[Obj] Archaeological Expedition
Seeds on table. When you complete a mission without earning any artifacts, you may download an artifact (as if earned) which could be seeded there.
Takes the "cost" of using artifacts away. (Well, still 1 seed for the objective, but additional artifacts are free.) Lots more room for text, if you come up with something troubling that needs a limiter.
It’s an interesting idea. Definately one that should be spun into a future set and playtested. My only concern is that what is to stop people from using ‘cheap’ missions to quickly grab an artifact to go and use it against an opponent quickly.

But it’s an interesting idea. Would help with ‘cant really use artifacts anymore’
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#553074
DarkSabre wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 am
JeBuS wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:20 pm
stressedoutatumc wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:05 pm I actually had this convo with my playgroup not too long ago. Artifacts really don't seem very "worth it" anymore, tbh. The only ones we are playing are the ones that come as a download in some fashion.

Maybe a solution would be errating missions to make them download to seed-able. Or, to make them downloadable through objectives. Both have backing in the lore of the ST universe. Bottom line, unless Horgan is unbanned, I don't know what artifact is really worth a seed slot.
How about an Objective that says something along the lines of:
[Obj] Archaeological Expedition
Seeds on table. When you complete a mission without earning any artifacts, you may download an artifact (as if earned) which could be seeded there.
Takes the "cost" of using artifacts away. (Well, still 1 seed for the objective, but additional artifacts are free.) Lots more room for text, if you come up with something troubling that needs a limiter.
It’s an interesting idea. Definately one that should be spun into a future set and playtested. My only concern is that what is to stop people from using ‘cheap’ missions to quickly grab an artifact to go and use it against an opponent quickly.

But it’s an interesting idea. Would help with ‘cant really use artifacts anymore’
Can't you already do that with seek illicit relic? Hasn't seemed to light the world on fire so far...
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#553083
I can never find that mission when I am looking for it. I always misremember it as an archaeology mission.
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By Smiley (Cristoffer Wiker)
 - Gamma Quadrant
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#553164
The problem is not really in the Artifacts per see. It's that the game has become so fast with so few rounds that there's no way to actually use most of them in any good manner. So just jacking up the power on them/making you seed multiples would only aggravate the problem more I'm afraid.

It's a little bit like fixing a broken window by installing a revolving door. =)
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#553185
DarkSabre wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:32 am
Armus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 am Can't you already do that with seek illicit relic? Hasn't seemed to light the world on fire so far...
?
The opportunity to be "using ‘cheap’ missions to quickly grab an artifact to go and use it against an opponent quickly." already exists today, but doesn't seem to be a pervasive issue.

So I guess the question is how would this create a concern that doesn't already exist with current cards (to whatever degree it is a concern)?
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By DarkSabre (Austin Chandler)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#553242
Armus wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:40 am
DarkSabre wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:32 am
Armus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 am Can't you already do that with seek illicit relic? Hasn't seemed to light the world on fire so far...
?
The opportunity to be "using ‘cheap’ missions to quickly grab an artifact to go and use it against an opponent quickly." already exists today, but doesn't seem to be a pervasive issue.

So I guess the question is how would this create a concern that doesn't already exist with current cards (to whatever degree it is a concern)?
The issue is that right now you have to put an artifact under a mission, even announcing you are 'self-seeding' a card. However, with the proposed idea, it doesn't matter which planet you solve, you can get an artifact.

I'd say that would probably cause some issues that would need to be tested.
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#557928
Hot take: artifacts aren’t bad because of game speed or because you can only get one at a time; they’re bad because they’re win-more.

Artifacts only help you win if you succeed at doing the main thing you do to win the game. That’s why only the most game-bendingly powerful artifacts get used, which is true of win-more cards in every game.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#557929
edgeofhearing wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:43 pm Hot take: artifacts aren’t bad because of game speed or because you can only get one at a time; they’re bad because they’re win-more.

Artifacts only help you win if you succeed at doing the main thing you do to win the game. That’s why only the most game-bendingly powerful artifacts get used, which is true of win-more cards in every game.
This plus their cost is slowing down your deck or lowering your defense
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#557932
DarkSabre wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 am My only concern is that what is to stop people from using ‘cheap’ missions to quickly grab an artifact to go and use it against an opponent quickly.

But it’s an interesting idea. Would help with ‘cant really use artifacts anymore’
That sounds like a good thing to me. Interaction in the form of facing dilemmas, at a cost of losing out on possibly relevant points, followed by interacting against the opponent. :)
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