This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#569633
That's what I said, but perhaps you couldn't hear me.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#569649
Armus wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:39 pmImage

[Stares in Lost Art of the Seed Phase]
To be fair, I thought pretty hard about said Art. But we have what we have and it seems very popular, so I must accept that that element of Artifact play is unlikely to return (unless somebody is much cleverer than me).

But there's plenty left to improve on and restore!
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#569679
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:09 am To be fair, I thought pretty hard about said Art. But we have what we have and it seems very popular, so I must accept that that element of Artifact play is unlikely to return (unless somebody is much cleverer than me).

But there's plenty left to improve on and restore!
Hypothetical rules question: Would the rules supprt/allow the idea of an objective that let you seed artifacts (probably by revealing them) after the batch seeding of dilemmas?


Or, running with this theory, since the worst of self-seed cheese is gone (Q), what if there was a seed card that let you do a self seed in the facility phase? Is hitting your own A Fast Ship Would Be Nice first broken if it costs 2 seed slots to do it?

But my main thought is a way to enable the Bajoran orb earning.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#569685
Fun fact: during development of what would become The Cage and the [OS] block, we had worked up a deck based on an artifact theme. It gave you a card like The Squire's Rules, Let Me Help, or New Civilizations that enabled access to artifacts in exchange for other tradeoffs. Sadly, it never made it very far out of design for a lot of reasons. But we have wanted to dabble in artifact play for awhile now, and I suspect we'll find more reasons to try again in the future.

-crp
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#569690
boromirofborg wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 pm
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:09 am To be fair, I thought pretty hard about said Art. But we have what we have and it seems very popular, so I must accept that that element of Artifact play is unlikely to return (unless somebody is much cleverer than me).

But there's plenty left to improve on and restore!
Hypothetical rules question: Would the rules supprt/allow the idea of an objective that let you seed artifacts (probably by revealing them) after the batch seeding of dilemmas?


Or, running with this theory, since the worst of self-seed cheese is gone (Q), what if there was a seed card that let you do a self seed in the facility phase? Is hitting your own A Fast Ship Would Be Nice first broken if it costs 2 seed slots to do it?

But my main thought is a way to enable the Bajoran orb earning.
This could be done legally.

The game balance / is it good for business questions are outside my purview, but, to answer your question, it is possible.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#569696
"Seeds on table during facility phase. Reveal any number of [Art] from your seed deck, then seed them under your missions. Discard Event."

Honestly, I'd almost just make that an OTF rule instead. Is there any big surprises around artifacts these days?
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#569704
access archive
may seed any number of artifacts here.
Archaeology x3, Security x3, Honor, Leadership, Computer Skill
points: 10X / X= number of artifacts earned here this turn
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#569706
Ensign Q wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:23 pm access archive
may seed any number of artifacts here.
Archaeology x3, Security x3, Honor, Leadership, Computer Skill
points: 10X / X= number of artifacts earned here this turn
Broken.

You need a cap or it's just another version of the Super Sybok deck.

1 mission wins shouldn't be a thing.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#569716
I'm (very) hesitant about cards that let you download Artifacts / get them early because it circumvents the central cost of Artifacts. Once an Artifact is downloadable / accessible, it is impossible to make it as powerful as an Artifact actually ought to be in order to make a decisive difference late in the game.

This is why Zefram Cochrane's Shotgun has never been printed. There's a terrific version of it that works really well as a nasty midgame surprise... but the existence of Dr. Cochrane's special download guarantees it can be downloaded turn 1, making it automatically overpowered.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#569717
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:21 pm I'm (very) hesitant about cards that let you download Artifacts / get them early because it circumvents the central cost of Artifacts. Once an Artifact is downloadable / accessible, it is impossible to make it as powerful as an Artifact actually ought to be in order to make a decisive difference late in the game.

This is why Zefram Cochrane's Shotgun has never been printed. There's a terrific version of it that works really well as a nasty midgame surprise... but the existence of Dr. Cochrane's special download guarantees it can be downloaded turn 1, making it automatically overpowered.
If this is true, why not just Errata Dr. Cochrane to remove the Special Download?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#569718
Well, it was 2017. There was a lot more reluctance to errata old cards that weren't actually broken just to make new cards to work. Remember the backlash when Design errata'd Liberty rather than treating Liberty's staffing as a constraint? That was front-of-mind in 2017 Design.

And, honestly, that's a healthy attitude! Don't errata things that aren't broken!

...but, OTOH, Dr. Cochrane's text right now does absolutely nothing, so errata'ing to get rid of it wouldn't exactly be changing anything...

(Of course, the game has changed a lot since 2017, too, so maybe the old version of Zefram's Shotty would no longer be suitable today. I guess that'd be a playtester question. I was always a bit more bullish on that card than others.)
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#569719
Armus wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:37 pm
Ensign Q wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:23 pm access archive
may seed any number of artifacts here.
Archaeology x3, Security x3, Honor, Leadership, Computer Skill
points: 10X / X= number of artifacts earned here this turn
Broken.

You need a cap or it's just another version of the Super Sybok deck.

1 mission wins shouldn't be a thing.
its pretty much as "broken" as mass quite a coincidence. damn that deck is unbeatable with its 6 dilemma seeded :shifty:
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