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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#555061
DarkSabre wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:29 pm Interference = Interactive.

It's how the game used to be and should be.
Overbroad... the game shouldn't be "I assemble my kill squad and wipe you or you assemble your kill squad and wipe me" ... that's the worst flavor of this game. Ditto drawing 18 cards a turn and dropping a pile of Rogue Borgs onto your opponent's ship. There's plenty of shitty interaction in this game's history.

On the other hand... Dropping an infiltrator into my crew and issuing secret orders into a sick dilemma combo? Now THAT'S the kind of interaction that makes the game great!
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By Mr.Sloan
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#555062
Armus wrote:
DarkSabre wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:29 pm On the other hand... Dropping an infiltrator into my crew and issuing secret orders into a sick dilemma combo? Now THAT'S the kind of interaction that makes the game great!
DarkSabre wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:29 pm Interference = Interactive.

It's how the game used to be and should be.
I agree with both. I wonder how infiltrators are used in the future when they are overhauled.
Last edited by Mr.Sloan on Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#555079
AllenGould wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:33 pm
SudenKapala wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:31 am What does the word "jank" mean, here?
The dictionary definition is "of extremely poor or unreliable quality", which for CCGs tends more to the latter half.

So, we're talking decks that can be called "interesting" and "fun", but not "good" or "reliable". Upgunning DS9 so you can shoot stuff for points, for example. :)
thx. (i guess @sexecutioner's decks do not qualify as "jank" then, as I prev. assumed -- or do they?)
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#555123
Armus wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:49 pm Overbroad... the game shouldn't be "I assemble my kill squad and wipe you or you assemble your kill squad and wipe me" ... that's the worst flavor of this game. Ditto drawing 18 cards a turn and dropping a pile of Rogue Borgs onto your opponent's ship. There's plenty of shitty interaction in this game's history.

On the other hand... Dropping an infiltrator into my crew and issuing secret orders into a sick dilemma combo? Now THAT'S the kind of interaction that makes the game great!
I think I agree with you overall, and I think one of the... flaws of 1E design has been that it tends to all or nothing. (Not that ST is alone in this.). In a more perfect world, I'd love to see stuff like being able to plant a ship at a mission and preventing attempts (or making them harder) until you deal with it-type tings.


If I blow up your facility and all your ships, I've locked you out. That's very interactive at the beginning, but not at all once the lock is in place.

But if I have to deploy 1/3rd of my resources to *slow* you by 50%, while fighting off your interference, that's good.

Given how in Star Trek, we very rarely see the hero ship lost with all hands, but instead we see crippled and setbacks, I wonder how different the game would have been if killed and destroyed things went back to hand, delaying them instead of annihilating.

I want to be able to force you to retreat for a turn or two, not end the game with a battle. (But given the current speed, it's the same I guess.)

A big issue with RBM (and they were a blight) was that for the cost of 1 card, I temporarily dealt with 5-7 of your cards. If instead, they simply only stopped 1 person per RBM, it could still have been a nuisance, and perhaps enough to prevent a mission solve on a critical turn, but not the nightmare we had.

Card parity wasn't really a concern in Decipher's early days,
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#555155
Find a cool thing, make deck that uses cool thing, find out it doesn't work, find a new cool thing, repeat.

AKA the "squirrel!" Deck building method.
1946531999-dugsquirrel.gif
1946531999-dugsquirrel.gif (120.5 KiB) Viewed 1384 times
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#555289
Smiley wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 8:09 pm What does the word "jank" mean, here? (I think I get the general -- "Niall deck"? -- meaning. But more specifically?) @stressedoutatumc, @AllenGould.
The friend I'm referring to has played since the very, very beginning. So, I think it's a function of just trying all the conventional stuff, and just being generally bored with it. I don't know if I can precisely describe it, but something along the lines of...

"Oh you don't think I can win a game using only the Phoenix, some Rogue Borg, Dukat, 6 dilemma, and 5 Ferengi? Hold my beer."
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#555290
Just FTR, I asked that question [Down] , not Smiley. Quote tag SNAFU. :lol:
stressedoutatumc wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:55 am
Smiley wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 8:09 pm What does the word "jank" mean, here? (I think I get the general -- "Niall deck"? -- meaning. But more specifically?)
"Oh you don't think I can win a game using only the Phoenix, some Rogue Borg, Dukat, 6 dilemma, and 5 Ferengi? Hold my beer."
LOL! :lol: Thx. Here's your beer back: :cheersL:
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By Smiley (Cristoffer Wiker)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#555431
Ah, I could not remember that I wrote this. =)
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#555433
Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:49 am Ah, I could not remember that I wrote this. =)
If this had happened to me, I would have thought it was old age setting in, but I’m often pessimistic. :lol:
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By Smiley (Cristoffer Wiker)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#555436
And it's a sad reminder of what the game has devolved to - that we only really have 3 types of decks to play.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#555446
Smiley wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:09 am And it's a sad reminder of what the game has devolved to - that we only really have 3 types of decks to play.
I don't know that I understand this comment. We are talking about truly overarching categories. Essentially the same ones all ccgs have -

Speed aka aggro
Interferance aka control
Card Combo aka combo
Multifaceted aka mid-range aka steamroller
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#555460
Hoss-Drone wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:17 pm We are talking about truly overarching categories.
While I agree in the basic triad of aggro-control-midrange, I think there is a valid critique that we don't have a lot of variation within those categories. Other than the color scheme, a lot of speed decks are going to look very similar in terms of skills on board, because everyone needs to pass the same dilemmas. (And to our fault, we've often chosen to just give affiliations access to everything in equal measure rather than let an affiliation be bad at something.)
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#555465
AllenGould wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:28 pm
Hoss-Drone wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:17 pm We are talking about truly overarching categories.
While I agree in the basic triad of aggro-control-midrange, I think there is a valid critique that we don't have a lot of variation within those categories. Other than the color scheme, a lot of speed decks are going to look very similar in terms of skills on board, because everyone needs to pass the same dilemmas. (And to our fault, we've often chosen to just give affiliations access to everything in equal measure rather than let an affiliation be bad at something.)
Disagree. Treks unique take on each of those archetypes doesn't resemble say magic, but they are there and they are all pretty distinct and they do have lots of variation. Personnel battle vs ships vs both. Control via black hole or point drain. Speed via 2 mission win or all planets. Etc etc.
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