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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#556600
Hello folks,

I'm leaving on a weekend vacation in a few hours, so I figured I'd type this up early and get the discussion going. It's Friday, and that means it's time for another question. Today, I'm going to give you an entirely fictional example of a situation we might face, and ask your opinion on a couple of the theoretical options. And I apologize in advance, this is a long one.

First, the situation. And remember, this is entirely fictional:

There is a card in an old Decipher expansion, and the card is called Blue Crash. Blue Crash is a Portal, a card type that has a full text box and can be played at any time on a player's turn. This particular card has three different ways it can be played:

1) Seed on table and open the Blue Sequence side deck, which contains Blue cards.
2) Seeds like a dilemma and, when encountered, makes the crew/Away Team deal with some Blue cards.
3) Stocks in your deck and can nullify a Blue card.

Unfortunately, because it's a old card, the words on Blue Crash don't exactly explain how it works. This means there are a lot of extra rules and clarifications in the glossary about how the Blue Crush card and side deck work. And over the years, the rules of the game have changed and evolved such that it's really hard to play with Blue Crash and the side deck.

Many, many years later, we in the Department of First Edition decide to make a small, boutique style expansion that will address some of these issues and bring some new life to Blue Crash and the Blue Sequence side deck. At the same time, we figure we can do some clarifying errata and get rid of some of the extra glossary entries.

After a bunch of design, development, testing, rules, and creative work, we come to a solution we really like: splitting Blue Crash into two different cards. First, the original card - Blue Crash, which will be an errata - now only takes the second function of the original - seeding like a dilemma and causing the opponent to deal with Blue cards. A brand new card takes all of the first function of the original, seeding on table and opening the Blue Sequence side deck.

This allows the Rules team to move almost all of the glossary text onto these two cards, virtually eliminating the extra rules. Now, the cards tell you what they do and how they work. This is a net win, but it comes with a few problems.

So, given this entirely fictional and theoretical situation, we have a couple of questions for you to consider and answer:

1) Without reading ahead, which card of the two (the one that seeds on table or the one that seeds under missions) should keep the title Blue Crash?

2) Now, assume that as an errata, the original card (which is the one that goes under missions) keeps the name Blue Crash. But, creatively, the image on the original Blue Crash is a much better fit for the new card that opens the Blue Sequence side deck. How would you feel about an errata to a card changing the card's image?

3) Let's say the wording on Blue Crash is such that it could now fit on a Dilemma template instead of a Portal template. How would you feel about errata to a card changing the card type? How about adding lore?

Finally, a bonus question:

4) The design team has made a new card, Blue Crash: Crash Harder. In theory, it would be a Portal because the original Blue Crash was a portal. Let's say the answer to the previous question is no, we can't change the original's card type. Would it be okay for the new card (that uses the colon rule) to be a different card type than the original?

Thanks for reading this long and entirely fictional situation, and giving your feedback on the options. I'm excited to read what you think - just as a theoretical exercise, of course. If you're on the west coast of the US, stay cool and stay safe. Actually, no matter where you are, stay cool and stay safe.

-crp
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#556602
The more you say it's entirely fictional the less I believe you. :P

1. The seeds on table card as it is the card that would be face up more than the seeds as a dilemma so the respect to the title is paid a little more there.

2. Change away. We are all used to AI cards now right?

3. Only change the type of it's the only way to make it work. Screw lore. I'm tired of lore making it harder to get proper wording on a card.

4. Colon rule cards can totally be a new card type imho since they are essentially a cycle now and cycles can transcend.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#556605
Hoss-Drone wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:08 pm The more you say it's entirely fictional the less I believe you. :P

1. The seeds on table card as it is the card that would be face up more than the seeds as a dilemma so the respect to the title is paid a little more there.

2. Change away. We are all used to AI cards now right?

3. Only change the type of it's the only way to make it work. Screw lore. I'm tired of lore making it harder to get proper wording on a card.

4. Colon rule cards can totally be a new card type imho since they are essentially a cycle now and cycles can transcend.
+1

I'm looking forward to Q-Flash 2.0... :wink:
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#556606
I want an answer to question 5: what, if anything, should be done about the third function?
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#556607
1. I think the card retaining most of the functionality should keep the name which in your example is the new card as it retains functions 1 and 3. The reason is twofold, 1, more of the original text is matching the original version, and 2, (which is related) it is having some text removed which I think is often indicative of errata as opposed to being added.

2. Ignoring my answer above, Decipher has already modified images on their cards both by removing people and/or their shadows, and adding Tribbles. I honestly would have no problem with an image change, heck that is exactly what AI cards are; same text-new picture.

3. Assuming you are still referring to the seeds-under-mission version, I would think it should be changed to Dilemma for clarity sake so I would have no problem with any related changes to that template, lore, etc.

4. I see no reason not to have the Blue Crash: Crash Harder be a different card type as there is plenty of precedence for it below:

Adapt: 1 [1E-Evt] and 2 [1E-Int]
Combat Ready: 2 [1E-Evt] and 2 [1E-Int]
Federation Flagship: 1 [1E-Evt] and 2 [Inc]
HQ: 2 [1E-Evt], 3 [Inc], and 3 [Obj]
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#556608
nobthehobbit wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:37 pm I want an answer to question 5: what, if anything, should be done about the third function?
As I said in my reply, I inferred that the 3rd function goes with the 1st function, since the 2nd function is being retained on the original card.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#556609
Iron Prime wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:34 pm
Hoss-Drone wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:08 pm The more you say it's entirely fictional the less I believe you. :P

1. The seeds on table card as it is the card that would be face up more than the seeds as a dilemma so the respect to the title is paid a little more there.

2. Change away. We are all used to AI cards now right?

3. Only change the type of it's the only way to make it work. Screw lore. I'm tired of lore making it harder to get proper wording on a card.

4. Colon rule cards can totally be a new card type imho since they are essentially a cycle now and cycles can transcend.
+1

I'm looking forward to Q-Flash 2.0... :wink:
Shhh.....
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#556616
Iron Prime wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:34 pm I'm looking forward to Q-Flash 2.0... :wink:
Now where did you get that idea? I didn't say Q-Flash. It was a fictional example about a card called Blue Crash.

:shifty:


-crp
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#556621
nobthehobbit wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:37 pm I want an answer to question 5: what, if anything, should be done about the third function?
In this entirely fictional example, the fate of the third function ("nullify a Blue card") would most likely depend on what ultimately happened to Blue Crash's card type:

(5A) if Blue Crash became a Dilemma, the third function would (likely) be spun off to a(nother) new card.

(Sticking with the Blue Screen of Death computer theme here, the new card might be called Mis-queue, since data structure errors can completely tank your operating system.)

(5B) if Blue Crash remained a Portal, the third function would (likely) remain on Blue Crash -- partly to justify it being a Portal and not a Dilemma!

(This, in turn, would open up some interesting possibilities for any "spin-off" Blue Crash: Crash Harder-style cards, which may or may not want to do special variations on the third function.)

EDIT: (5C) The third option, which Professor Scott alluded to, could be to put the third function on the first new card (let's call it Blue Sequence Offload). But I infer from Charlie's OP that Blue Sequence Offload would be pretty full of offloaded text already, and may not have room for the third function. END EDIT

As for Charlie's questions, I couldn't possibly comment.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#556622
Suggested card art for Blue Crash. Yes, it should be the first card with animated GIF art. It would work in Lackey at least... (presumably)

Image
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#556623
Boffo97 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:16 pm Suggested card art for Blue Crash. Yes, it should be the first card with animated GIF art. It would work in Lackey at least... (presumably)

Image
I don't think Lackey is sophisticated enough for animated gifs.
User avatar
 
By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#556631
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:54 pm Boffo has sussed it! This whole thread is secretly about Project Blue Sun, finally arriving late 2021!
Shiny, let's be bad guys!
User avatar
 
By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#556632
1) Without reading ahead, which card of the two (the one that seeds on table or the one that seeds under missions) should keep the title Blue Crash?

the one that seeds on the table.

2) Now, assume that as an errata, the original card (which is the one that goes under missions) keeps the name Blue Crash. But, creatively, the image on the original Blue Crash is a much better fit for the new card that opens the Blue Sequence side deck. How would you feel about an errata to a card changing the card's image?

That is unprecedented and should not be done. (Unless you ever decide to release that Hirogen guy without the Nazi symbol, then by all means, change an image).

3) Let's say the wording on Blue Crash is such that it could now fit on a Dilemma template instead of a Portal template. How would you feel about errata to a card changing the card type? How about adding lore?

No. errata the card on the table that is already in the proper format (card type, image, etc), and make a new dilemma template card that works with "Blue Crash". The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Give us a dilemma for under the mission and you ease confusion by eliminating worrying about rules for cards that seed "like a dilemma". leave the portal on the table where it belongs.

Finally, a bonus question:

4) The design team has made a new card, Blue Crash: Crash Harder. In theory, it would be a Portal because the original Blue Crash was a portal. Let's say the answer to the previous question is no, we can't change the original's card type. Would it be okay for the new card (that uses the colon rule) to be a different card type than the original?

Yes

there is already precedent for this with events and interrupts sharing card titles via colon rule.
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