This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#563889
Hey quick question about Tricyanate Poisoning. I was watching the live stream of worlds, and ^^ came up on an attempt and the attempter did not have the requirements of the closest space mission. Is the attempting crew stopped because the card says "unless" or does the crew move on because the dilemma is placed atop mission?

That card loses alot of it's potential power if it's the former.
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#563891
You are stopped because it says "unless". Basically it is a two turn delay of your opponent solving. It would be completely broken if it didn't stop you because if it forced you to continue the gametext on the card may as well read "You immediately solve this mission for 0 points." You would then seed it all by itself under two of your opponent's missions (because why would you even need another dilemma there?) and stack your other dilemmas under the other 4 missions.
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#563892
Takket wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:36 am You are stopped because it says "unless". Basically it is a two turn delay of your opponent solving. It would be completely broken if it didn't stop you because if it forced you to continue the gametext on the card may as well read "You immediately solve this mission for 0 points." You would then seed it all by itself under two of your opponent's missions (because why would you even need another dilemma there?) and stack your other dilemmas under the other 4 missions.
It wouldn't be broken, there's still a fair amount of setup you would need to actually make it make the mission worth 0. But, it is what it is.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#563893
The fun play (if not the winner) is alien parisites at a close mission with teh hope that you can take over and solve for zero (and maybe even get a few mission specialist points) to take it away from your opponent.
Losing a mission option can be devastating
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#563894
pfti wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:40 am The fun play (if not the winner) is alien parisites at a close mission with teh hope that you can take over and solve for zero (and maybe even get a few mission specialist points) to take it away from your opponent.
Losing a mission option can be devastating
I agree, but if the dilemma is moved to on top of mission or discards, why would
"unless" automatically add a "stop". That's on the silly side of things and makes little sense since the penalty of the dilemma would already punish the fail.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#563896
stressedoutatumc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:42 am
pfti wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:40 am The fun play (if not the winner) is alien parisites at a close mission with teh hope that you can take over and solve for zero (and maybe even get a few mission specialist points) to take it away from your opponent.
Losing a mission option can be devastating
I agree, but if the dilemma is moved to on top of mission or discards, why would
"unless" automatically add a "stop". That's on the silly side of things and makes little sense since the penalty of the dilemma would already punish the fail.
Failing to meet a condition of a dilemma has always stopped the attempting team whether the dilemma discards or not. This isn't a new thing.
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#563898
stressedoutatumc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:42 am
pfti wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:40 am The fun play (if not the winner) is alien parisites at a close mission with teh hope that you can take over and solve for zero (and maybe even get a few mission specialist points) to take it away from your opponent.
Losing a mission option can be devastating
I agree, but if the dilemma is moved to on top of mission or discards, why would
"unless" automatically add a "stop". That's on the silly side of things and makes little sense since the penalty of the dilemma would already punish the fail.
Glossary, with my emphasis
Conditions

Most dilemma requirements are simple conditions. These are usually distinguished from triggers and nullifiers by the use of the phrases "To get past..." or "Unless..." They ordinarily target the crew or Away Team, but may target others where specified (see last example).

Examples:

Gomtuu Shock Wave: "Unless 2 Diplomacy and INTEGRITY>32 OR Empathy and INTEGRITY>35 present..."

Scientific Method: "To get past requires MEDICAL and 3 SCIENCE."

Dead End: "Unless you have at least 50 points..."

If your Away Team or crew can meet the conditions of a dilemma, they automatically overcome it, preventing its effect. Discard the dilemma (or, if it is a multisection dilemma, proceed to its next effect). If your Away Team or crew cannot meet its conditions, the effect occurs, the attempt ends, the attempting ship, crew, and/or Away Team are all stopped (see dilemma resolution: stopping
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#564045
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:18 pm Unless is one of the hidden keywords and means a stop at fails
You can't really call it a hidden keyword when the thing is defined in the Encountering dilemmas section of the rulebook...
Conditions are often prefaced with the words "unless" or "to get past."

However, if you fail to meet the conditions of any of the active effects on a dilemma, the dilemma is not removed. Failing to overcome a conditional effect has all of the following consequences:

The effect occurs.
The mission attempt fails (see mission failure below).
The ship, crew, and/or Away Team involved in the mission attempt are all stopped.
The dilemma is reseeded as the bottom card under the mission, to be encountered again on the next attempt.
There are two main exceptions to these consequences for dilemma failure:

If a dilemma states, "Discard dilemma", then the dilemma is removed and discarded after it is encountered, even if the mission team failed to overcome its conditions. The mission attempt still fails, and the mission team is still stopped, but at least the dilemma will not be encountered again!

If a dilemma states, "Mission continues", then the dilemma is removed even if the mission team fails to pass it. The mission attempt continues and the mission team is not stopped.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#564046
Its hidden as in not explained on the card and no indication of a keyword like italics.
Ofc if you know all rules its obvious. For a new player not so much
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#564048
I accept that you feel this way. But my 1994 Rulebook tells me the same as the current Rulebook. For this game, it has literally "Always Been This Way."
Excited! I don't get to use "literally" in a literal sense very often.

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IMG_20211012_020321974~2.jpg (437.77 KiB) Viewed 3312 times
It is written in the document you were expected to read before playing the game. It is not hidden. I don't expect people to have the Rulebook or Glossary memorized. I do expect a working knowledge of the Rulebook.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#564061
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:40 am Ofc if you know all rules its obvious. For a new player not so much
Mind, if you haven't read the rules most of this game isn't obvious. :)
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