[AllenGould]

Back to the original question. Finest Crew looks for "U.S.S. Enterprise" in lore. Why wouldn't Rachel Garrett or Richard Castillo pass that check? What's the current written rule that makes that not work?

Because the word in their lore isn't "U.S.S. Enterprise", it's "U.S.S. Enterprise-C".

Same way that "cause" and "because" are different words.

What rule says that?

You mean, what rule says that two different words are different words?

[JeBuS]

Because the word in their lore isn't "U.S.S. Enterprise", it's "U.S.S. Enterprise-C".

Same way that "cause" and "because" are different words.

What rule says that?

You mean, what rule says that two different words are different words?

Think of it from a different perspective than a native English speaker, former rules master, and big Trek fan.

Let's say you're a brand new player, never seen an episode of Trek in your life, and English isn't your first language. How do you read the card and the rules to find that "U.S.S. Enterprise-C" does not qualify as having "U.S.S. Enterprise" in lore?

[Armus]

Is "context matters" a "rule" like "you get one normal card play a turn" is a "rule"?

If context doesn't matter, then there's a whole slew of bullshit shenanigans I can do just with lore references alone!

The obviously less absurd (though possibly less fun) answer is that basic conventions of grammar and logic must necessarily be a foundation of any game's agreed-upon ruleset, and those conventions are so fundamental that it's not reasonable to codify them in a game's rulebook, as they're required to even read the rules to begin with.

[JeBuS]

Is "context matters" a "rule" like "you get one normal card play a turn" is a "rule"?

If context doesn't matter, then there's a whole slew of bullshit shenanigans I can do just with lore references alone!

The obviously less absurd (though possibly less fun) answer is that basic conventions of grammar and logic must necessarily be a foundation of any game's agreed-upon ruleset, and those conventions are so fundamental that it's not reasonable to codify them in a game's rulebook, as they're required to even read the rules to begin with.

I take it you're referring to the "named in lore" glossary entry? Finest Crew doesn't say "named in lore". Unlike Dramatis Personae and Holoprogram: The Voyager Encounter. According to the card, all Finest requires is that the text appear in lore, right?

[Armus]

Is Sarish Rez a minister that can play for free to Chamber of Ministers? He has 'minister' in lore.... 3 times even!

[JeBuS]

Is Sarish Rez a minister that can play for free to Chamber of Ministers? He has 'minister' in lore.... 3 times even!

Chamber doesn't specify that all of your cards with "minister" in lore may report there.

If you reword Chamber to say:
your Bajoran personnel with "minister" in lore may report (for free)

What do you think the interpretation would be?

[JeBuS]

I guess the basic questions are:

• Does the glossary entry "named in lore" cover all instances of "in lore", or is it meant to expound on a very specific clause found on a couple cards? [if the former, I might suggest editing the glossary to be "referenced in lore"]
• Does "the colon rule" cover everything "hyphen-like"? [if it doesn't cover all hyphen-like characters, it's going to be hard even for some native English speakers]
• Does "the colon rule" cover card titles only in the title, or also "in lore"?

[phaserihardlyknowher]

• Does "the colon rule" cover everything "hyphen-like"? [if it doesn't cover all hyphen-like characters, it's going to be hard even for some native English speakers]

Having made this mistake myself in the Q discussion thread (and being embarrassed by it), I'm nevertheless going to argue that you are going down a grammatical hole if you adopt a "hyphen-like" rule. The use of a hyphen in words is governed by some fairly complex rules that will likely create interactions you do not want. It may also create a nightmare of errata to correct grammatical errors, but I have not audited the card database, so I'm just guessing on that.

I will also compliment you on your use of "hyphen-like", where a hyphen is appropriate because you are transforming a noun into an adjective.

EDIT: I'd also add that the use of the hyphen in nouns is subject to change over time: tin-foil or tinfoil are in the dictionary, but not aluminumfoil or aluminum-foil. There are no rules governing this, it's simply convention. Trek: CCG has been going for nearly 30 years and if it goes for 30 more, it seems likely that some words will run afoul of simple changes in convention.

[JeBuS]

• Does "the colon rule" cover everything "hyphen-like"? [if it doesn't cover all hyphen-like characters, it's going to be hard even for some native English speakers]

Having made this mistake myself in the Q discussion thread (and being embarrassed by it), I'm nevertheless going to argue that you are going down a grammatical hole if you adopt a "hyphen-like" rule. The use of a hyphen in words is governed by some fairly complex rules that will likely create interactions you do not want. It may also create a nightmare of errata to correct grammatical errors, but I have not audited the card database, so I'm just guessing on that.

My point is that even native English speakers have a hard time knowing what the difference is between a hyphen and the various dashes. Relying on being able to make that distinction seems like a losing battle. If players cannot reliably discern which is which, then it falls upon the rules to call out which specific cards are covered by the rule, or for errata to the cards which would be so affected by the rule (basically, change those dashes to colons so that the question of hyphens is eliminated entirely).

[stressedoutatumc]

Just to throw more fuel, it seems like Finest Crew SHOULD work for all USS Enterprises. The function of the colon on cards that contain one is to distinguish a member of the subset of that card. The example I’d say Alien Abduction gives another example of Alien Abduction, for example. It’s not a hyphen, it’s a dash/colon because it functionally works the same. I’d also argue that The Continuing Mission actually implies this because it does work for generation crew, lots of which are enterprise B. I formally submit that the ruling should be finest Crew should work for all enterprise-x

[Professor Scott]

Just to throw more fuel, it seems like Finest Crew SHOULD work for all USS Enterprises. The function of the colon on cards that contain one is to distinguish a member of the subset of that card. The example I’d say Alien Abduction gives another example of Alien Abduction, for example. It’s not a hyphen, it’s a dash/colon because it functionally works the same. I’d also argue that The Continuing Mission actually implies this because it does work for generation crew, lots of which are enterprise B. I formally submit that the ruling should be finest Crew should work for all enterprise-x

However, of the 18 personnel with "U.S.S. Enterprise-"in their lore, only 5 of them don't immediately break Continuing Mission and thus break Finest Crew in the Fleet's reporting function. One is TNG property and 4 are Generations and all are .

Rachel Garrett

D.C. Franklin
John Harriman
Marruu
Voight

[boromirofborg]

My feeling on this is; what's the current harm? I don't see something broken arising from this, or even somehting that would be a nasty surprse to an opponent - just an unintuitve, "huh, cool" type interaction. (As noted, only 5 personnel really work with this anyway).

Further, if you want to trek-sense it, there is a strong feeling in the shows that more then other ships of the line, being on the Enterprise means something, regardless of A, B, C, or D.

My personal suggestion would be to let it be, with an acknowledgement of this could get eventually changed some day if the "colon rule" is tightened.

[pfti]

I would say this technically works and I am fine with that.

More fun in the universe!

[Iron Prime]

I would say this technically works and I am fine with that.

More fun in the universe!

Is that the best kind of working?

[pfti]

Also a finest crew deck that uses reunite legends to get the B is a deck I want to support