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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
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#566047
I'm posting for a buddy that is too shy to post.

He want to use Tellarite Trading Post which seeds at Smugglers' Rendezvous at Police Trade Route. My understanding is that since Tellerite TP is a station, it does not have direct reporting functionality (like Deep Space Station K-7). So, where can personnel report? My guess was that he needs to be able to report to a ship since the location is space and the mission is space. Or, is there like some loophole that allows him to report to the time location directly since it is it's own "location".

thanks!
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
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2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#566050
If the time location lets people report "here" they can show up on the location. (or a card like protect the timeline).

It is also a good target for War council

So the facility doesnt allow reporting, but it can be a target for cards that specify where something is reporting.
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
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#566054
pfti wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:10 pm If the time location lets people report "here" they can show up on the location. (or a card like protect the timeline).

It is also a good target for War council

So the facility doesnt allow reporting, but it can be a target for cards that specify where something is reporting.
I think I may be misunderstanding. Which of the two things is correct:

[1] Because the time location says they can report "here", they can report to the card itself in the same way that if a card allows reporting to a planet, they can report to the surface. It does not matter that the location and the mission are space missions.

[2] The card also allows for reporting directly to a ship, given that I have a card function that does so. So like if I have a personnel that says I can report ____ to him/her and they are at this location (given they are also native), he can report one such personnel for free.

Or is it both?
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
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2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#566055
I think both, if I am reading right.
If it says here, you can go to any facility ship or surface

If it specifies a specific type of location (to this person, to this facility etc) you can always do that action (so long as you meet the conditions) regardless of where x thing is.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#566061
Oh, hey, a card I designed! I know how this one works (because Rules told me how it needed to work back in 2017).

Smuggler's Rendezvous is a time location. Personnel who are native to a time location may report to that time location. When native personnel report to a time location, they may report to any place at the time location.

Smuggler's Rendezvous is a [S] time location, so they can't report directly to the time location -- your personnel would suffocate in the vaccum of space!

However, they can report directly aboard any ship or facility at the time location (yours OR your opponent's). That includes Tellarite Trading Post.

So how it works is: you report a [22] personnel "to the time location" using the time location's "native to this timeline" text. (You can make this personnel report for free using the time location's "for free" text or using Protect The Timeline.) You choose any place at the time location as the reporting destination, so you choose the Tellarite Trading Post. Personnel reports aboard Tellarite Trading Post.

In this way, Tellarite Trading Post is almost identical to a [NA] outpost. In fact, it originally was just an outpost, but this caused rules problems (you're not supposed to have facilities at time locations, basically, cough cough looking at you Seat of Starfleet), so Rules and Design worked together to make the Trading Post work equivalently to an outpost but within the rules. So Tellarite Trading Post has no built-in reporting function, but, much like Deep Space Station K-7 and Arne Darvin, you can report to it using the time location itself.

Does that make sense to you/your friend/everyone else reading this?
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
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#566070
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:25 pm Oh, hey, a card I designed! I know how this one works (because Rules told me how it needed to work back in 2017).

Smuggler's Rendezvous is a time location. Personnel who are native to a time location may report to that time location. When native personnel report to a time location, they may report to any place at the time location.

Smuggler's Rendezvous is a [S] time location, so they can't report directly to the time location -- your personnel would suffocate in the vaccum of space!

However, they can report directly aboard any ship or facility at the time location (yours OR your opponent's). That includes Tellarite Trading Post.

So how it works is: you report a [22] personnel "to the time location" using the time location's "native to this timeline" text. (You can make this personnel report for free using the time location's "for free" text or using Protect The Timeline.) You choose any place at the time location as the reporting destination, so you choose the Tellarite Trading Post. Personnel reports aboard Tellarite Trading Post.

In this way, Tellarite Trading Post is almost identical to a [NA] outpost. In fact, it originally was just an outpost, but this caused rules problems (you're not supposed to have facilities at time locations, basically, cough cough looking at you Seat of Starfleet), so Rules and Design worked together to make the Trading Post work equivalently to an outpost but within the rules. So Tellarite Trading Post has no built-in reporting function, but, much like Deep Space Station K-7 and Arne Darvin, you can report to it using the time location itself.

Does that make sense to you/your friend/everyone else reading this?
Yep, I believe so, thank you. That was my argument to him as well, you have to report somewhere that isn't space because it's not like planet time location. So, he does not need some other card that gives him reporting capability; he can report to the outpost or to a ship, but once he's no longer at the time location he can no longer report to that ship he could have at the TL.
 
By Tosk
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#566156
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:25 pm Oh, hey, a card I designed! I know how this one works (because Rules told me how it needed to work back in 2017).
On something of a tangent, but could you help me understand what benefit the third function of "Comfort Women" provides the player? From what I can see anyone playing a [NA] [22] deck would have ample places to report (such as the trading post) already, so what does Comfort Women help with?
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#566157
Tosk wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:06 pm
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:25 pm Oh, hey, a card I designed! I know how this one works (because Rules told me how it needed to work back in 2017).
On something of a tangent, but could you help me understand what benefit the third function of "Comfort Women" provides the player? From what I can see anyone playing a [NA] [22] deck would have ample places to report (such as the trading post) already, so what does Comfort Women help with?
Comfort Women allows [NA] [22] females to be native to Augment Research Facility, Drone Control Room, and MACO Training Camp, which don't currently have native [NA] [22] personnel. I'm rather amused by the thought of who's getting comforted at those locations.
 
By Tosk
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#566161
jadziadax8 wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:22 pm
Comfort Women allows [NA] [22] females to be native to Augment Research Facility, Drone Control Room, and MACO Training Camp, which don't currently have native [NA] [22] personnel. I'm rather amused by the thought of who's getting comforted at those locations.
Thank you for the response, but I'm still confused... why would you want to play any of those Time Locations if you are trying to build a deck about Orion Slave Girls? Those are clearly intended as base of operations for Augments, Romulan Drone and MACO decks, respectively. Playing your Orion slave girls to any of those locations would surely just add an extra step or two to getting them to the spaceline where they will be useful? Why even bother with Smugglers Rendezvous when you can already report them directly to Verex III?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#566162
jadziadax8 wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:22 pm
Tosk wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:06 pm
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:25 pm Oh, hey, a card I designed! I know how this one works (because Rules told me how it needed to work back in 2017).
On something of a tangent, but could you help me understand what benefit the third function of "Comfort Women" provides the player? From what I can see anyone playing a [NA] [22] deck would have ample places to report (such as the trading post) already, so what does Comfort Women help with?
Comfort Women allows [NA] [22] females to be native to Augment Research Facility, Drone Control Room, and MACO Training Camp, which don't currently have native [NA] [22] personnel. I'm rather amused by the thought of who's getting comforted at those locations.
That's right. The-card-that-became-Comfort-Women was designed with the third function first, and it originally just made [NA] [22] females count as native to Drone Control Room. This is because Drone Control Room decks suffer from very tight constraints on personnel (their faction is sub-Vidiian in size, even after we used every single available image) and we wanted to provide at least two viable ways to play a Drone Control Room-centered deck. (The other way we provided is Spires of Romulus, which keeps the deck all-Romulan but you lose [22]-ness.) It's possible that at some point we started with "slave girls," but we expanded to "[22] [NA] females" because we just needed the bodies. (And then we put a BUNCH of [22] [NA] females into Cold Front to support that!)

At some point, we decided to name the card Comfort Women to fix Kira Meru's broken link (we really wanted to close some broken links in Cold Front), and the other two functions on C.W. came after that decision. I pitched the second function because I thought it was what Terok Nor decks needed (I was wrong; what they needed was Primary Turbolift and mirror-match protection), and Dan pitched the first function last, after observing that the card needed to do something useful for Kira Meru and pointing out to me that Comfort Women (2E) is actually a non-2EBC 2E card that we could borrow from.

Things I like about this card in retrospect:

+ I think the third function works pretty much as-intended -- it gets a viable Drone Control Room deck up and running--and that was its core purpose. (I spent hours with a spreadsheet making the intricate Cold Front skill matrix work "correctly," since practically every card in it was serving at least two masters.)

+ I think the first function provides reasonably balanced skill cheating, which is a notoriously tough balance to strike. I think this ability is underrated atm.

+ The Baj/Car decks that resulted from this were fun to see.

+ It did rather help Terok Nor decks.

+ Using the card makes me feel gross and villainous, which... I'm playing the bad guys, so it should.

Things I don't like about this card in retrospect:

- The mandatory site download in the second function is a trap that should be more clearly signposted. Space was at a premium, the card was complex, and this card was the set promo, so there was a lot of last-minute tension with Rules about how the card was supposed to be worded, but I wish we'd said "you must download a site" instead of just "semicolon download a site."

- Giving out extra sites is bad, actually. Nors have soooo much gametext already, and most people aren't using this download to get a simple extra reporting location Infirmary or Security Office (which was our intention, given the constraints of I Miss This Office); they're more often getting some fancy thing like Quark's Bar. Fortunately, Primary Turbolift came along a couple years later and actually solved the problem we'd been trying to solve.

- I had expected to see the second function supplement [Car] Terok Nor decks, but I more often see these decks running at something like 50% Bajorans, which feels story-weird. Rise up, Bajoran comfort women! You outnumber your oppressors and they even let you use their guns!

- The fact that the Bajoran ladies were dissidents was supposed to be more meaningful (potentially even a disadvantage), but most of the "dissidents matter" cycle never gelled and got cut from Cold Front.

- Keyword searches are bad; the first function should have said " [Car] or [1E-Rom] V.I.P. " instead of "Gul or Senator". Sorry-not-sorry, Ethan Novakovich.

- I don't actually like feeling gross and villainous, and (now that my laser focus on building a Drone deck By Any Means Necessary has passed) I'm somewhat troubled by the morality of making a card like this.

- This is one of those incidents that feels like it has three functions just to fill space. It's not -- we really came to each function organically--but the result is definitely overcrowded and trying to do A LOT. I would have liked to figure out a way to trim it down and fit 2 lines of lore on instead (not sure that would actually be possible, though).

- Forcing players using the third function to also use Verex III is great story, but feels too constraining on players' spacelines when Drone Rommies are already committed to Romulus and probably Remus.
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