[ShipNerd]

but one of them is a bugout because a card happens to it and not the other.

Maybe Design should design a generic bugout (like the one I pitched) that is not very good ("your turn immediately ends" is solid; I also thought about point loss), and then down the road individual factions can develop faction-specific bugouts (that are actually designed as bugouts for that faction, with appropriate stories) as needed.

Only the players abusing it will be against it, I would guess.

I added the strike thought, in stressedoutatumc´s quotes. Because I consider that wording more neutral and allow everyone to be for or against it and being respected with their points of view.

Personally, I think for dilemma escape or to add personnel to solve a dilemma is powerful.

Weaken during mission attempts (e.g. by changing the rules) would give the game more turns, which is a good thing because then more interaction could happen. Like downloaded people from a separate crew/away team when mission attempt has already started and merge once finished and/or BCSWowbagger suggestion. Prevent being destroyed by a dilemma (different affiliation flavored solutions) but end the turn so that opponents ships could initiate an attack or an away team battle / capturing could be initiated.

[Ensign Q]

more turns means longer games. if we get an additional 30min im interested.

[AllenGould]

Personally, I think for dilemma escape or to add personnel to solve a dilemma is powerful.

[DL]s are just too powerful in general, IMO.

(My argument - it's a free card search, a free card play, *and* it breaks all the rules about when you could play that card - including allowing it to work when the copy you already have in your hand normally wouldn't. Oh, plus the fact that it gets to be the nice short icon while any fairer version has to spend a line of text.)

[jjh]

Would a "fairer" version simply turn the icon upside down, so the download goes to hand? (thanks Star Wars CCG!) Would that solve problems or create more?

[Ensign Q]

Would a "fairer" version simply turn the icon upside down, so the download goes to hand? (thanks Star Wars CCG!) Would that solve problems or create more?

i would turn SD into an interrupt

[AllenGould]

Would a "fairer" version simply turn the icon upside down, so the download goes to hand? (thanks Star Wars CCG!) Would that solve problems or create more?

i would turn SD into an interrupt

I'd generalize it even further - you get the fetch, but no timing bennies. If a card costs a card play, SD still requires the card play. If it's an interrupt/doorway, it has to be a legal play.

[Armus]

Would a "fairer" version simply turn the icon upside down, so the download goes to hand? (thanks Star Wars CCG!) Would that solve problems or create more?

i would turn SD into an interrupt

I'd generalize it even further - you get the fetch, but no timing bennies. If a card costs a card play, SD still requires the card play. If it's an interrupt/doorway, it has to be a legal play.

I.... dislike this a lot less than I thought I would....

Hmmm.....

[pfti]

Would a "fairer" version simply turn the icon upside down, so the download goes to hand? (thanks Star Wars CCG!) Would that solve problems or create more?

i would turn SD into an interrupt

I'd generalize it even further - you get the fetch, but no timing bennies. If a card costs a card play, SD still requires the card play. If it's an interrupt/doorway, it has to be a legal play.

Functionally this is just downloading to hand except the small risk of hand manipulation interrupts being removed

[Armus]

i would turn SD into an interrupt

I'd generalize it even further - you get the fetch, but no timing bennies. If a card costs a card play, SD still requires the card play. If it's an interrupt/doorway, it has to be a legal play.

Functionally this is just downloading to hand except the small risk of hand manipulation interrupts being removed

Given that hand manipulation is my biggest concern, I consider this a feature rather than a bug.

[pfti]

I'd generalize it even further - you get the fetch, but no timing bennies. If a card costs a card play, SD still requires the card play. If it's an interrupt/doorway, it has to be a legal play.

Functionally this is just downloading to hand except the small risk of hand manipulation interrupts being removed

Given that hand manipulation is my biggest concern, I consider this a feature rather than a bug.

TOS suddenly needs supply depots to function. BWAHAHAHAHA

[Armus]

TOS suddenly needs supply depots to function. BWAHAHAHAHA

Not if you're using Sherman's Peak and K-7...

Also, given where TOS is on the power curve, this still feels more like feature than bug...

Pfti you're this idea's best advocate... the more I hear from you, the more I'm liking it!

[pfti]

TOS suddenly needs supply depots to function. BWAHAHAHAHA

Not if you're using Sherman's Peak and K-7...

Also, given where TOS is on the power curve, this still feels more like feature than bug...

Pfti you're this idea's best advocate... the more I hear from you, the more I'm liking it!

I am not for or against it, I am just thinking it through.

In this thought experiment does that make non-special downloads infinitely better than their special friends.

[AllenGould]

In this thought experiment does that make non-special downloads infinitely better than their special friends.

Which nicely brings up the biggest problem I have with the current SD - it basically does *everything*. You get to fetch. You get a free draw. You get a free play. You get to break timing rules. You'd be hard-pressed to make a better version.

And it means that when you *only* offer a "you can have a card up your sleeve whenever you need it", it feels stupidly weak.

[Ensign Q]

ok so sd goes to hand. clear and simple.
can keep the anytime rule then
we could get a temporary change from jan to march to test the change

[stressedoutatumc]

In this thought experiment does that make non-special downloads infinitely better than their special friends.

Which nicely brings up the biggest problem I have with the current SD - it basically does *everything*. You get to fetch. You get a free draw. You get a free play. You get to break timing rules. You'd be hard-pressed to make a better version.

And it means that when you *only* offer a "you can have a card up your sleeve whenever you need it", it feels stupidly weak.

FWIW, I think an equally good change to consider is JUST to take away the 'suspends play' aspect out of . It would fix some of the aforementioned problems but still leave the "special" parts in tact. It would fix the dilemma/cancel part but also weaken it.