This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
User avatar
 
By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#569207
Armus wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:08 pm
Professor Scott wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:57 pm
JeBuS wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:34 pm I think this one works. Based on Kor names Kahless in lore via 'Sword of Kahless' and Zegov's lore names both Sisters of Duras and Duras. It appears that you are allowed to break out the sub-words of a compound noun.
I disagree... if 'Sword of Kahless' in lore is equal to Kahless in lore, then Lt Data in lore and Lt Commander Data in lore must also equal Data in Lore, which clearly is not true.
Time to pull out the glossary apparently.
Named in Lore wrote: A personnel or ship card is named in the lore of another card if the lore refers to that personnel or ship by name. The named card's title must exactly match the full name given by the lore, including any capitalized modifiers such as ranks, titles, or descriptors. For example, I.K.C. K'elric names Captain Kang in lore, but does not name Kang in lore; Ezri names Mr. Brunt in lore, but not Brunt; Gorta's lore names Duras, but not Sisters of Duras.

A planet is named in the lore of another card if the lore refers to the location text of that planet mission (see mirror universe).

The capitalization of articles ("a", "the") may be disregarded. (Both Bareil and 0413-Theta name The Intendant in lore.) Standard word form variations, such as declined or possessive nouns, do not "break" a match. (Jadzia Dax is named in Els Renora's lore, despite the apostrophe + s after "Dax.")

Context matters for determining whether the lore is actually naming the subject. Incidental uses of a word, like "One" in Kovat's lore, do not count. For example, Telle mentions "data" in lore, but does not name Data; Kor's lore does name Kahless (who owns the "Sword of Kahless"); and Zegov's lore names both Sisters of Duras and Duras.
So I think the glossary refutes this particular argument.
@Armus, Clearly you are not wrong, however I WILL say that the glossary is wrong. Kor sought the Sword of Kahless which is an object not the person. I feel due to context, it's clear that Kor does not actually reference Kahless. The Kahless here is merely to differentiate between this sword and that sword.

"Kor sought the Sword."
"Who's sword, The Sword of Worf?'
"No, the Sword of Kahless."
"Oh, now I know which sword. Do you seek Kahless too?"
"No, the clone Emperor is on Qo'noS. Why did you bring him up?"
"You did when you said Sword of Kahless!"
"No I didn't I merely specified who's sword I was seeking."

The fact that there is an actual card Sword of Kahless is immaterial, and does not strengthen my case at all; I pointed it out for clarity.
User avatar
 
By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#569303
Ensign Q wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:47 am under current rules, sword of kahless mentions kahless
I am not stating that the current rules don't say Sword of Kahless counts as saying Kahless,, I am stating that it is my opinion that the rules shouldn't counts Sword of Kahless as saying Kahless.

Lt. Stiles does say Earth-Romulan War so according to the rules Earth counts but Romulan, because it's not Romulus, does not. It is also my opinion that neither should count as his lore references a war. Which war? The Earth-Romulan. Who fought in it? People from both sides. Were any Vulcans involved? Who knows, it wasn't called the Earth and Vulcan-Romulan War.

My point is he references a war, not the planets themselves, since the planet is called Romulus not Romulan. I guess I am looking for Syntax context in a game that doesn't want to use it.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#569356
Professor Scott wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:50 am My point is he references a war, not the planets themselves, since the planet is called Romulus not Romulan. I guess I am looking for Syntax context in a game that doesn't want to use it.
FWIW, 2014 Rules attempted a couple draft rulings that tried to do this, but we/they failed.

Partly because the distinction was too fine for an ordinary player to parse correctly (this Lt. Stiles would be a good example of a situation where it would have been difficult to adjudicate), and partly because it led to even sillier / more counterintuitive results, like K'Vit not naming "Duras".

"Coridan" is not the object of the sentence in Thelev's lore, but his lore does refer to an admissions conference. Whose conference? Coridan's conference. So Coridan is named in the lore. It doesn't have to be the object; it just has to be named, and it is.
Question for noob

That's the question. The Isolinear Rods downloads […]

Only works when RS is played after AIV. This is be[…]

Still a few weeks left to get registered for the[…]

Hey all, we are running a "Warum-up" fo[…]