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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#572545
Hello again! I'm back with an update on our seeding process. As of 48 hours, here are the current response rates:

TOS: 20/37 responses so far (54.1%) (+5 from yesterday)
TNG: 19/41 responses so far (46.3%) (+5 from yesterday)
DS9: 28/39 responses (71.8%) (+5 from yesterday)
VOY: 26/31 responses (83.9%) (+4 from yesterday)
ENT: 19/31 responses (61.3%) (+3 from yesterday)

That is just really awesome to see. And it's making a big impact! Out of the 64 cards, the votes from yesterday caused 42 of them - 65.6% - to change position in the seeding. And that's including 2 of the 4 #1 seeds. Your votes make a big impact! You picked the episodes, now you're seeding the cards, and soon you'll be picking winners.

Another interesting fact: the last seed for each series (16th for Voyager, 12th for the others) has not changed yet. So the unpopular cards are pretty universally unpopular!

-crp
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#572546
MidnightLich wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:53 pm Another interesting fact: the last seed for each series (16th for Voyager, 12th for the others) has not changed yet. So the unpopular cards are pretty universally unpopular!

-crp
just a minor point - there may be some like me that are ranking certain cards lower, not because they don't like the idea of it, but because the idea is so good it would require being a theme of many cards. (Looking at Far Beyond the Stars, for example. When that's done, I personally want a mini-set worth of content, not a single dilemma.)
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#572548
boromirofborg wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:02 pm
MidnightLich wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:53 pm Another interesting fact: the last seed for each series (16th for Voyager, 12th for the others) has not changed yet. So the unpopular cards are pretty universally unpopular!

-crp
just a minor point - there may be some like me that are ranking certain cards lower, not because they don't like the idea of it, but because the idea is so good it would require being a theme of many cards. (Looking at Far Beyond the Stars, for example. When that's done, I personally want a mini-set worth of content, not a single dilemma.)
Oh yeah, absolutely! I'm not trying to throw any shade to the voters or their votes. I just like data! :)

-crp
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#572549
MidnightLich wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:15 pm I just like data! :)

-crp


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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#572605
It's Friday, which is so awesome. I'm back with a 72 hour update. Things are definitely slowing down and stabilizing, but seeding is open for our volunteers through the weekend. And even a small number of new votes can make a lot of changes. For example, we had 29 cards change position with votes from yesterday.

Here is where we are:

TOS: 22/37 responses so far (59.5%) (+2 from yesterday)
TNG: 20/41 responses so far (48.8%) (+1 from yesterday)
DS9: 30/39 responses (76.9%) (+2 from yesterday)
VOY: 28/31 responses (90.3%) (+2 from yesterday)
ENT: 22/31 responses (71.0%) (+2 from yesterday)

The #1 seeds for TOS, VOY, and ENT all changed again in this most recent set of votes. TNG and DS9's #1 seeds have been consistent across the entire window (so far). In no particular order, the #1 seeds are currently 3 verbs and 2 nouns.

The 5 last place seeds (#16 for Voyager, #12 for the others) have never changed. Right now, they make up 2 artifacts, 2 personnel, and a verb.

-crp
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#572606
MidnightLich wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:49 pm The 5 last place seeds (#16 for Voyager, #12 for the others) have never changed. Right now, they make up 2 artifacts, 2 personnel, and a verb.

-crp
Not surprised to hear that [Art] are near the bottom. :( We need to make [Art] great again.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#572607
I'm playing with Google sheets and I made some trend lines for the TOS cards:
TOS_Seed_Trends.png
TOS_Seed_Trends.png (6.71 KiB) Viewed 1856 times
There's 3 data points in each one. The left side is the position after 24 hours, the middle is after 48, and the right is after 72. There aren't any numbers there, but I think it's fun to see how they have moved.

-crp
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#572608
This is all I see.
Attachments:
aurebesh-alphabet1.jpg
aurebesh-alphabet1.jpg (34.94 KiB) Viewed 1849 times
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#572773
Hello folks! The seeding polls are closed, and here are the final counts:

TOS: 24/37 responses so far (64.9%)
TNG: 22/41 responses so far (53.7%)
DS9: 32/39 responses (82.1%)
VOY: 28/31 responses (93.5%)
ENT: 23/31 responses (74.2%)

Thank you to everyone that both initially voted for the winning episodes, and those of you that took the time to help seed these cards. I'm really happy with the turnout, especially the DS9 and Voyager fans! Go you!

If you don't recall, here are the episodes that are represented in this year's bracket:

TOS "Amok Time"
TOS "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"
TOS "Catspaw"

TNG "Second Chances"
TNG "Thine Own Self"
TNG "Genesis"

DS9 "Inquisition"
DS9 "Far Beyond the Stars"
DS9 "Soldiers of the Empire"

VOY "The Raven"
VOY "In the Flesh"
VOY "Barge of the Dead"
VOY "Distant Origin"

ENT "Carbon Creek"
ENT "Terra Prime"
ENT "North Star"

I have provided a link to the Memory Alpha summary of each episode, if you want to refresh your memory or speculate about what card ideas might be in the brackets. Episodes marked with the starship are those that have claimed the #1 seed for their episode. Similarly, those with the thumbs down icon are those in the #12 (or #16 for Voyager) position.

The bracket will be revealed on Wednesday, March 2nd. Voting will begin at the same time.

I'm excited! I hope you are too!

-crp
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#572775
lol Carbon Creek!
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#572779
Armus wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:57 pm lol Carbon Creek!
+1!
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#572795
So I filled out this poll to seed the cards. What happened next?

Note: If you don't care or don't want to know how this was done, please stop reading now!

Each person who volunteered to seed the card ideas was asked to rank each one from 1st to 12th (or to 16th, in the case of Voyager). To determine the final seeding order of the cards, I started by calculating the sum total of all the individual seed votes. Each 1st place vote was worth 1 point, 2nd place worth 2 points, and so forth. For example, if a card was ranked as follows by 5 judges:
1st: 2
2nd: 1
3rd: 0
4th: 0
5th: 2
That would end up with a total score of (2*1) + (1*2) + (2*5) = 14. The lower the overall score, the better the placement in the list. In the case of a tie, the card with the most votes at the highest rank would be the winner. Thus the card with 14 points and with 1x 1st place vote would beat the card at 14 points but with 3x 2nd place votes.

After doing all this math, I had a ranking of each series' cards from 1st to 12th (or 16th for Voyager). The next step was scattering these cards across the 4 brackets. In last year's bracket, each series was given it's own bracket. But not only would that not work with 5 series in the mix, but I wanted to make sure cards from different series would mix it up.

I decided the fairest way to do this was to put the cards on the bracket, from 1st to last seed, in the order of their relative popularity. Based on the results of the Prelude poll (to pick the episodes), the series fell into this order:
1st: DS9
2nd: VOY
3rd: TNG
4th: TOS
5th: ENT
With that in mind, I listed all 64 cards in the following order:
DS9 1st Seed
VOY 1st Seed
TNG 1st Seed
TOS 1st Seed
ENT 1st Seed
DS9 2nd Seed
VOY 2nd Seed
TNG 2nd Seed
TOS 2nd Seed
ENT 2nd Seed
...
ENT 11th Seed
DS9 12th Seed
VOY 12th Seed
TNG 12th Seed
TOS 12th Seed
ENT 12th Seed
VOY 13th Seed
VOY 14th Seed
VOY 15th Seed
VOY 16th Seed
In a typical March Madness bracket, there are 4 brackets of 16 that are put 2 per side, facing each other. They meet in the middle with the championship game. For ease of reference, I labeled these Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta. Alpha is the top left, Beta the bottom left, Gamma the top right, and Delta the bottom right. In each bracket, parings are made such that the sum of the seeds is 17. For example, #1 vs. #16, #2 vs. #15, and so on until you get to #8 vs #9. They aren't arranged in that order, but a pre-determined one that's pretty standard. It's designed to make sure #1 and #2 can't meet until the last game of that bracket.

Using my ranked list from above, I started with the #1 position in the Alpha bracket. That was the 1st DS9 seed that took the #1 spot in the top left bracket. In the bottom left, the #1 spot went to the 1st Voyager seed. Gamma's (top right) #1 spot went to the 1st TNG seed and Delta's (bottom right) #1 went to the 1st TOS seed. Then, I went back in that loop and filled out the #2 seeds, which means that ENT's 1st spot ended up in the #2 seed position of the Alpha bracket. This also meant that the #16 positions in each bracket were claimed by the 13th - 16th place Voyager episodes.

However, this pattern ended up with 5 matches between card ideas from the same series. I really didn't want that to happen in the 1st round, so I swapped the positions of the lowest seed in that matchup with the next highest. For example, in the Beta (bottom left) bracket, the #1 vs #16 match was the Voyager 1st seed versus the Voyager 14th seed. I swapped the card that was in the 16 position (VOY #14) with the one in the 15 position (TNG #12) to make it so there were no Series A vs Series A matches in the 1st round.

And that is how we ended up with the bracket we'll be using. I made a version of it on Google Sheets you can look at if you want to see it for yourself. Once the seeding polls were done, I just had to go and fill in the positions with the final position of each card.

I hope this explanation and example make sense. I'd love to hear your feedback and I'll do my best to answer any questions you might have.

-crp
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#572796
Didn't you snake seed? Sounds like not.

#1 ENT as #5 overall should be the #2 in the Delta Bracket opposite the overall #4 (#1 TOS). #2 DS9 as the overall #6 should be the #2 in the Gamma Bracket opposite the overall #3 (#1 TNG), etc. That results in the lowest 2 seed in the same bracket as the highest 1 seed (#8 and #1 overall respectively); the highest 3 and the lowest 4 (#9 and 16 overall respectively) should be in the same bracket.

Let me know if you need assistance, I'm happy to help!

#Bracketologynerd
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#572798
Armus wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:40 pm Didn't you snake seed? Sounds like not.
No, I didn't. That would have been a good idea. I'll keep it in mind for next year!

-crp
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#572800
MidnightLich wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:53 pm
Armus wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:40 pm Didn't you snake seed? Sounds like not.
No, I didn't. That would have been a good idea. I'll keep it in mind for next year!

-crp
This thing is still in draft, right? Why not fix it now and get the better result?

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