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#575273
The rulebook does cover most of it, but I'll answer the key points here (and just lean more to the strategy/tactical side)
stressedoutatumc wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:52 am So these are just essentially free plays? This wouldn't be my card play for the turn, correct?
Not "free" in the "free play" sense, but they don't take your card play (and you have to do it as an order). Put it in the same bucket as Bajoran Shrine - it's a thing you can do on your turn.
My understanding is that they are designed just to muddle things for the opposing player?
My approach is that in exchange for that one seed card, you're getting a bunch of incremental stops and mini-dilemmas. Most of them aren't deal-breakers, but it's one more thing the opponent has to pay attention to. And as you pile them up a lot of the abilities combo nicely. So if the opponent ignores them you get a lot of incremental bonus as they have to work around them.

Otherwise...
How does one get rid of tribbles? Can they be beamed off ship, carried?
Tribbles can't be attacked or killed or deliberately removed. The best you can do is put them on a ship and blow *that* up... at which point everything goes back under your side deck and you start playing them again. It's a temporary reprieve at best (but I have had opponents do it!)

You can move them around - 1s and 10s can be picked up by any personnel (kinda like equipment). The abilities still work, though, so they'll want to put them down, and dropping a tribble stops the personnel carrying it. (Free stop!)

100s and up are too much to carry, but they can be beamed by a Transporter Skill (one at a time)... and beaming them stops the personnel. (Which is even better, since sometimes you can get two stops if they're desperate enough)

Which sums up my thesis of "why Tribbles are awesome" - regardless of how the opponent deals with them, it costs them time. Extra personnel in each attempt, or just a bunch of extra stops as they waste time moving the fuzzies around. And you can build dilemmas to try and capitalize on them, or just use them as a general bonus.

Now, the downsides:

1. They are fiddly, part 1: you have to remember to do it every turn. Trust me: ain't no opponent in the world nice enough to let you back-up to add tribbles. ;)

2. They are fiddly, part 2: because you have to play them in order, you can't rely on having specific tribbles in play on specific turns. Even with my small deck, it's only 55% or so odds of me having a 10 on turn 1 - and then the next turn I'm hoping for the 100, etc etc. I think the flexibility of getting to play mini-dilemmas "run time" is worth that trade, but if you're big on predictability they may not be for you.

3. Opponent hate: Oh boy howdy, will you run into players who hate Tribbles with a deep and fiery passion. I've run Tribbles in Borg assimilation decks and opponent's would rather I keep the assimilation and lose the Tribbles ;)
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By Enabran
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2E Austrian National Second Runner-Up 2022
#575276
AllenGould wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:52 pm
Otherwise...
How does one get rid of tribbles? Can they be beamed off ship, carried?
The best you can do is put them on a ship and blow *that* up... at which point everything goes back under your side deck and you start playing them again.
I disagree. The best thing you can do (and I have done it 2 decades ago) is to beam them with your invasive transporters back to their own ship or outpost. The next best is to collect all of them on one Garbageship.
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#575290
Armus wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:55 pm Well now the best thing you can do is let Worf clean up the mess.

Maybe with a Glommer or two along for the ride... :wink:
Neither of those worry me over much:

The Eel nullifies one tribble. So either you're grabbing the biggest (which means I can replay it next time), or you're grabbing a smaller one that's particularly annoying (which means I can still replay it).

Worf is mildly better, but again - I'm gonna get them back, so you had to play this Worf, bring him over, etc etc.

(And if your meta is slotting in this level of Tribbles hate, just sub out the deck for another seed for a few weeks. Just because the side deck is in the box doesn't mean you have to play it ;) )

Invasive Transporters is a neat trick, but you're still stopping all those T-Skill folks to do the beaming, plus you wasted time driving over to me.
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
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#575307
AllenGould wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:52 pm The rulebook does cover most of it, but I'll answer the key points here (and just lean more to the strategy/tactical side)
stressedoutatumc wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:52 am So these are just essentially free plays? This wouldn't be my card play for the turn, correct?
Not "free" in the "free play" sense, but they don't take your card play (and you have to do it as an order). Put it in the same bucket as Bajoran Shrine - it's a thing you can do on your turn.
My understanding is that they are designed just to muddle things for the opposing player?
My approach is that in exchange for that one seed card, you're getting a bunch of incremental stops and mini-dilemmas. Most of them aren't deal-breakers, but it's one more thing the opponent has to pay attention to. And as you pile them up a lot of the abilities combo nicely. So if the opponent ignores them you get a lot of incremental bonus as they have to work around them.

Otherwise...
How does one get rid of tribbles? Can they be beamed off ship, carried?
Tribbles can't be attacked or killed or deliberately removed. The best you can do is put them on a ship and blow *that* up... at which point everything goes back under your side deck and you start playing them again. It's a temporary reprieve at best (but I have had opponents do it!)

You can move them around - 1s and 10s can be picked up by any personnel (kinda like equipment). The abilities still work, though, so they'll want to put them down, and dropping a tribble stops the personnel carrying it. (Free stop!)

100s and up are too much to carry, but they can be beamed by a Transporter Skill (one at a time)... and beaming them stops the personnel. (Which is even better, since sometimes you can get two stops if they're desperate enough)

Which sums up my thesis of "why Tribbles are awesome" - regardless of how the opponent deals with them, it costs them time. Extra personnel in each attempt, or just a bunch of extra stops as they waste time moving the fuzzies around. And you can build dilemmas to try and capitalize on them, or just use them as a general bonus.

Now, the downsides:

1. They are fiddly, part 1: you have to remember to do it every turn. Trust me: ain't no opponent in the world nice enough to let you back-up to add tribbles. ;)

2. They are fiddly, part 2: because you have to play them in order, you can't rely on having specific tribbles in play on specific turns. Even with my small deck, it's only 55% or so odds of me having a 10 on turn 1 - and then the next turn I'm hoping for the 100, etc etc. I think the flexibility of getting to play mini-dilemmas "run time" is worth that trade, but if you're big on predictability they may not be for you.

3. Opponent hate: Oh boy howdy, will you run into players who hate Tribbles with a deep and fiery passion. I've run Tribbles in Borg assimilation decks and opponent's would rather I keep the assimilation and lose the Tribbles ;)
Appreciate it! One mechanical questions. When a tribble "breeds" from a smaller group, the rulebook says they both remain in play...as in my opponent has to deal with the "1" tribble and now also the "10" tribble, or does it remain in play but kinda stack up as a single group?
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By Enabran
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2E Austrian National Second Runner-Up 2022
#575320
AllenGould wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:55 pm

The Eel nullifies one tribble. So either you're grabbing the biggest (which means I can replay it next time), or you're grabbing a smaller one that's particularly annoying (which means I can still replay it).
You are reading the Eel wrong. It doesn't nullify (any)one Tribble - it nullifys 1 Tribble (1 Tribble - Bonus, 1 Tribble - Discard or 1 Tribble - Go).

AllenGould wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:55 pm Invasive Transporters is a neat trick, but you're still stopping all those T-Skill folks to do the beaming, plus you wasted time driving over to me.
Sure, but now your tribbles annoy you.
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#575334
Enabran wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:06 am You are reading the Eel wrong. It doesn't nullify (any)one Tribble - it nullifys 1 Tribble (1 Tribble - Bonus, 1 Tribble - Discard or 1 Tribble - Go).
Oh! Well, then I don't care about Eel at all because I don't use 1s. :D
AllenGould wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:55 pm Invasive Transporters is a neat trick, but you're still stopping all those T-Skill folks to do the beaming, plus you wasted time driving over to me.
Sure, but now your tribbles annoy you.
Possibly - depends on what tools my main deck has. But then we're in proper gameplay, so I'm not going to be downer on a smart counter-strategy. :thumbsup:
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#575339
stressedoutatumc wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:08 pm Appreciate it! One mechanical questions. When a tribble "breeds" from a smaller group, the rulebook says they both remain in play...as in my opponent has to deal with the "1" tribble and now also the "10" tribble, or does it remain in play but kinda stack up as a single group?
Yup. "Breed from N tribbles" is fancy-speak for "plays where you have at least X tribbles". But they don't replace, they just pile up like fuzzy personnel (and have to be dealt with individually as well - you can't just beam the whole shebang).
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
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#575341
AllenGould wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:46 am
stressedoutatumc wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:08 pm Appreciate it! One mechanical questions. When a tribble "breeds" from a smaller group, the rulebook says they both remain in play...as in my opponent has to deal with the "1" tribble and now also the "10" tribble, or does it remain in play but kinda stack up as a single group?
Yup. "Breed from N tribbles" is fancy-speak for "plays where you have at least X tribbles". But they don't replace, they just pile up like fuzzy personnel (and have to be dealt with individually as well - you can't just beam the whole shebang).
Thanks. I mean, all this sounds like there's not a ton of downside other than a single seed-slot and the possible hatred of my opponent. Am I missing a downside to using a tribble side deck?
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
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2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#575344
stressedoutatumc wrote:Am I missing a downside to using a tribble side deck?
mainly the opportunity cost of what that seed slot could be. Are the tribbles worth more to your deck then a dilemma or Defend Homeward, etc.
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#575349
boromirofborg wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:32 pm
stressedoutatumc wrote:Am I missing a downside to using a tribble side deck?
mainly the opportunity cost of what that seed slot could be. Are the tribbles worth more to your deck then a dilemma or Defend Homeward, etc.
That's the main one. Others that come to mind (some of these may be repeats from earlier, but better to get them all consolidated for future readers):

1. You are accepting a fair bit of randomness in your game plan. Some games it's going to feel like a dead seed slot - since you need a 10 to get started, if they're all mid-low in the side deck that could be a few turns of "draw three, throw them all under the deck".

2. It's not exactly *fast*. Without draw deck support you only add one tribble per pile per turn. Against non-Klingons, that means it's the second drop (to 100) that actually does anything. (Which means min. turn 2, possibly longer if you're having bad draws.) So in metas with extremely fast games you need extra support to stall long enough for them to come online.

3. Prepared / savvy opponents can mitigate a lot of the damage, and since Tribble abilities are static and predictable, you will want to cycle them in/out of the deck so everyone doesn't tech against you. (I usually swap out for either a 19th dilemma or some other weird jank to inflict ;) )
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