[Armus]

I think all the 2EBC Maneuver cards should just be converted to tactics. That would make the most sense to me at least.

A double random kill is a big step up in tactic power. There needs to be some tradeoffs if that's the path they choose to go down.

[jadziadax8]

I think all the 2EBC Maneuver cards should just be converted to tactics. That would make the most sense to me at least.

A double random kill is a big step up in tactic power. There needs to be some tradeoffs if that's the path they choose to go down.

Agreed. A pure 1:1 translation is probably not feasible.

[MarkB82]

You're giving up you're card play to do this, so unlike an interrupt it's not out of the blue. This card simply wouldn't work as a tactic card. Some probably would. It's the same as flagship relaunched needs a major rethink. I have my own version I made when I made some bridge commander cards. But a simple rethink of naming TNG would also work (and fix issues with ships and matching commanders).

[winterflames]

Just so we are clear, you can still make decks using shanthi and the thunderchild or bateson and the Bozeman, they just won't be Era Locked decks. They would probably go well in an all eras office of the president deck where you save the whales and fly the Phoenix, then complete a couple Admiral friendly missions to round the corner, so to speak.

[MarkB82]

Just so we are clear, you can still make decks using shanthi and the thunderchild or bateson and the Bozeman, they just won't be Era Locked decks. They would probably go well in an all eras office of the president deck where you save the whales and fly the Phoenix, then complete a couple Admiral friendly missions to round the corner, so to speak.

But you can't use those in an enterprise e deck which has limited options within the feds. It's a side deck right now. I can make them work, I did an e lore borg deck using voyager borg. It's about theme, it's lacking. I can making great ds9 and TNG fed decks. Ent e can't ask it's own race for help. It's silly.

[geraldkw]

Just so we are clear, you can still make decks using shanthi and the thunderchild or bateson and the Bozeman, they just won't be Era Locked decks. They would probably go well in an all eras office of the president deck where you save the whales and fly the Phoenix, then complete a couple Admiral friendly missions to round the corner, so to speak.

But you can't use those in an enterprise e deck which has limited options within the feds. It's a side deck right now. I can make them work, I did an e lore borg deck using voyager borg. It's about theme, it's lacking. I can making great ds9 and TNG fed decks. Ent e can't ask it's own race for help. It's silly.

The FF card was made early in the new card era. I think it would be interesting to revisit and revise the earlier sets such as Life from Lifelessness and Shades of Grey to improve some of the cards that aren't played often or adjust them to work better with newer cards.

[AllenGould]

As I understand it, Decipher decided to make the to make sure these versions of the characters were "different" from the original versions. I'm sure that, in hindsight, they might have made a different choice.

As memory serves, it was because there was concerns about giving Feds *two* sets of bridge crew, and the was to keep you in a lane and not mix-and-match the best versions of each set.

(And then they went and made a pile more Fed bridge crews that can all mix and match freely, so EE just looks weird for being the one bridge crew that can't easily mix?)

[MarkB82]

As I understand it, Decipher decided to make the to make sure these versions of the characters were "different" from the original versions. I'm sure that, in hindsight, they might have made a different choice.

As memory serves, it was because there was concerns about giving Feds *two* sets of bridge crew, and the was to keep you in a lane and not mix-and-match the best versions of each set.

(And then they went and made a pile more Fed bridge crews that can all mix and match freely, so EE just looks weird for being the one bridge crew that can't easily mix?)

I agree, I can use red squadrons defiant with tmp bridge crew, but not the enterprise e. It either needs to be folded in with tng (which solves issues with the thunderchild) or the engine needs to be less restrictive (is not bring discarded for playing non-first contact feds).

[enabrantain]

I think the answer might be to introduce a card like 'Continuing Mission" that gives all non- , personnel and ships with the First Contact, Insurrection, Armada and Nemesis logo the icon. But I have a feeling they are already planning this. I suppose one thing that's been it holding back is whether or not to add non- Voyager personnel and ships to that list as well. And maybe a separate card called "Pathfinder Project" could do that.

[nobthehobbit]

The icon is already a special staffing icon (and is used in a few other places, too, such as U.S.S. Akira), so giving it to everyone would probably be overpowered.

The icon that should be used, in my opinion, is the other icon called out on Federation Flagship: Relaunched, the First Contact expansion icon. It has been used for this purpose a few times, on Suzanne Dumont and Martinez. Add it to Kathryn Janeway and Matthew Dougherty and that's all you need.

[enabrantain]

The icon is already a special staffing icon (and is used in a few other places, too, such as U.S.S. Akira), so giving it to everyone would probably be overpowered.

The icon that should be used, in my opinion, is the other icon called out on Federation Flagship: Relaunched, the First Contact expansion icon. It has been used for this purpose a few times, on Suzanne Dumont and Martinez. Add it to Kathryn Janeway and Matthew Dougherty and that's all you need.

But making the icon more available will make the USS Enterprise-E more playable and allow future ships to have it as a staffing icon. We still don't have a generic USS Sovereign, not to mention any representatives of the Sabre Class, Steamrunner Class or Norway Class vessels. And the fact that they put TNG and Generations together for says they've been planning to make equal to , , , , and . But I could be wrong.

[nobthehobbit]

The icon is already a special staffing icon (and is used in a few other places, too, such as U.S.S. Akira), so giving it to everyone would probably be overpowered.

The icon that should be used, in my opinion, is the other icon called out on Federation Flagship: Relaunched, the First Contact expansion icon. It has been used for this purpose a few times, on Suzanne Dumont and Martinez. Add it to Kathryn Janeway and Matthew Dougherty and that's all you need.

But making the icon more available will make the USS Enterprise-E more playable and allow future ships to have it as a staffing icon. We still don't have a generic USS Sovereign, not to mention any representatives of the Sabre Class, Steamrunner Class or Norway Class vessels. And the fact that they put TNG and Generations together for says they've been planning to make equal to , , , , and . But I could be wrong.

There's already a universal support personnel with : Jae. It doesn't make sense for Janeway or Dougherty to have (the original debate over the icon, that I recall, was brought about because the original version of that Janeway did have the icon, some people objected on the basis that she was never assigned to the Enterprise-E and Design changed it to ), but it also makes no sense to exclude them from a FF:Relaunched deck since they're literally from that same time period and place and operated alongside the Enterprise-E in some fashion. Hence why I think the First Contact expansion icon should be used as a general era icon, at least for personnel seen to be interacting with or assigned to the Enterprise-E in some way (so, setting aside the personnel from that era, not including personnel like Reginald Barclay, E.M.H. - Mark II, Lewis Zimmerman or a hypothetical Owen Paris; Deanna Troi, by contrast, was on leave from the Enterprise-E).

[BCSWowbagger]

An interesting coda to the Ancient Icon Debate Of Old:

At the time, some of us were big sticklers that the icon should only apply to personnel because that's what the rulebook said. "This icon represents the special training necessary to pilot the Enterprise-E," or words to that effect.

Those words are no longer in the rules, and have not been for several years. The door is open to making an era icon, if Design chooses to walk through that door.

[nobthehobbit]

An interesting coda to the Ancient Icon Debate Of Old:

At the time, some of us were big sticklers that the icon should only apply to personnel because that's what the rulebook said. "This icon represents the special training necessary to pilot the Enterprise-E," or words to that effect.

Those words are no longer in the rules, and have not been for several years. The door is open to making an era icon, if Design chooses to walk through that door.

And I'd still contend that because it is a special staffing icon and was not (unlike or ) designed with the thought in mind that it would serve as a faction icon, it shouldn't be made into such; the precedent is already (mostly) there to use the First Contact expansion icon for the purpose, which has a much lower potential to harm game balance. (While it's true that the two personnel who got that icon despite not being from the First Contact set do at least have images drawn from the movie, the card that calls out the expansion icon draws its image from Nemesis.)

[winterflames]

What if, you know, They designed a new icon which would be given to this set of people? Maybe with an eratta to FFR, maybe with a new card which downloads a new type card allowing for a Shinzon and the Remans deck, or a First Contact Only Borg deck, and just put that icon on FFR?