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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#584199
Pawns of the Military says "opponent may download and seed here up to two of the following: Hyper-Aging, Aphasia Device or any virus-related dilemma."

Can I get two virus-related dilemmas? Or are all virus-related dilemmas collectively considered one of the "up to two of the following"?

EDIT: Secondary question. Pawns of the Military does not say "except combo dilemmas." Does that mean I can get Computer Weapon & Hyper-Aging?
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By geraldkw
 - Beta Quadrant
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#584226
GooeyChewie wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:04 am Pawns of the Military says "opponent may download and seed here up to two of the following: Hyper-Aging, Aphasia Device or any virus-related dilemma."

Can I get two virus-related dilemmas? Or are all virus-related dilemmas collectively considered one of the "up to two of the following"?

EDIT: Secondary question. Pawns of the Military does not say "except combo dilemmas." Does that mean I can get Computer Weapon & Hyper-Aging?
You get (up to) two dilemmas. They should have used the Oxford comma after "Device" to help make it clear that "any virus-related dilemma" is a third item in the list not an "instead of" the entire list.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#584231
GooeyChewie wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:04 am EDIT: Secondary question. Pawns of the Military does not say "except combo dilemmas." Does that mean I can get Computer Weapon & Hyper-Aging?
A "virus-related" card is one with "virus" in title, lore, or gametext. Since "virus" does not appear on that combo dilemma, it is not virus-related and can't be grabbed. (Sorry.)
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#584235
geraldkw wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:47 am You get (up to) two dilemmas. They should have used the Oxford comma after "Device" to help make it clear that "any virus-related dilemma" is a third item in the list not an "instead of" the entire list.
So to make sure I understand, getting (for example) Virus and Tsiolkovsky Infection would not be legal because it would mean choosing the same item twice. Correct?
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:06 pm A "virus-related" card is one with "virus" in title, lore, or gametext. Since "virus" does not appear on that combo dilemma, it is not virus-related and can't be grabbed. (Sorry.)
Hyper-Aging is also specifically called out (the first option). Does that fact change the answer?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#584238
GooeyChewie wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:36 pm Hyper-Aging is also specifically called out (the first option). Does that fact change the answer?
No. "Computer Weapon & Hyper-Aging" is not the same as "Hyper-Aging," in the same way that "Jake and Nog" is not the same as "Nog" (even though it is "any Nog"),

Again, sorry. If I recall correctly, the Cold Front team actually had no Design/Balance problem with downloading this combo card. There were just a lot of rules things to sort out -- some of which were sorted out at the very very end, hence Aphasia Device being redundantly listed--and not a lot of space remaining on the card to make a nifty little combo dilemma work.

Ancient Computer & Microvirus works, though. Pfti ruled at the time that "virus" includes "microvirus".
So to make sure I understand, getting (for example) Virus and Tsiolkovsky Infection would not be legal because it would mean choosing the same item twice. Correct?
No, that is fine. The card is saying, "Pick two items from the following set: {Hyper-Aging, Aphasia Device, {the set of all virus-related dilemmas}}."

Or, in layman's terms: "Pick any two of these cards: Hyper-Aging, Aphasia Device, Ancient Computer & Microvirus, Difficult Disposal, Harvester Virus, Iconian Computer Weapon, Macrovirus, Microvirus, Morphogenic Virus, Nanobiogenic Fugitives, No Loose Ends, Romulan Mind Probes, The Vengeance Factor, Tsiolkovsky Infection, Virus, or Yuta."
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#584244
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:43 pm
GooeyChewie wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:36 pm Hyper-Aging is also specifically called out (the first option). Does that fact change the answer?
No. "Computer Weapon & Hyper-Aging" is not the same as "Hyper-Aging," in the same way that "Jake and Nog" is not the same as "Nog" (even though it is "any Nog"),

Again, sorry. If I recall correctly, the Cold Front team actually had no Design/Balance problem with downloading this combo card. There were just a lot of rules things to sort out -- some of which were sorted out at the very very end, hence Aphasia Device being redundantly listed--and not a lot of space remaining on the card to make a nifty little combo dilemma work.

Ancient Computer & Microvirus works, though. Pfti ruled at the time that "virus" includes "microvirus".
So to make sure I understand, getting (for example) Virus and Tsiolkovsky Infection would not be legal because it would mean choosing the same item twice. Correct?
No, that is fine. The card is saying, "Pick two items from the following set: {Hyper-Aging, Aphasia Device, {the set of all virus-related dilemmas}}."

Or, in layman's terms: "Pick any two of these cards: Hyper-Aging, Aphasia Device, Ancient Computer & Microvirus, Difficult Disposal, Harvester Virus, Iconian Computer Weapon, Macrovirus, Microvirus, Morphogenic Virus, Nanobiogenic Fugitives, No Loose Ends, Romulan Mind Probes, The Vengeance Factor, Tsiolkovsky Infection, Virus, or Yuta."
Notice that The Vengeance Factor itself can also download 2 dilemmas, which includes Microvirus and Yuta in addition to The Gatherers as options.
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