This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.

In a world where we safely could, from which new Trek should we add content?

Star Trek (2009)
18
9%
Star Trek Into Darkness
18
9%
Star Trek Beyond
18
9%
Discovery
27
14%
Picard
29
15%
Lower Decks
28
15%
Prodigy
15
8%
Strange New Worlds
37
19%
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By jjh (Johnny Holeva)
 - First Edition Art Manager
 -  
#584922
phaserihardlyknowher wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:16 am I actually like much of the new Star Trek stuff, though it sounds like I'm the only one.
No, not at all. The other side is Louder.

I love it all not because it is perfect or "my" Trek, but because it is all Star Trek.

How'd it work out for all the Loud TOS Loyalists who hated everything about TNG when it came out?

IDIC.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#584923
jjh wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:58 am How'd it work out for all the Loud TOS Loyalists who hated everything about TNG when it came out?
Cue "do you want Abramsverse? Because that's how you get Abramsverse" jokes? :P
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#584925
AllenGould wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:01 pm
jjh wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:58 am How'd it work out for all the Loud TOS Loyalists who hated everything about TNG when it came out?
Cue "do you want Abramsverse? Because that's how you get Abramsverse" jokes? :P
I thought it was the Kelvinverse.... are we changing terms now?
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 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#584927
Professor Scott wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:08 pm I thought it was the Kelvinverse.... are we changing terms now?
Tomato, tomato. ;)
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#584928
Professor Scott wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:08 pm
AllenGould wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:01 pm
jjh wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:58 am How'd it work out for all the Loud TOS Loyalists who hated everything about TNG when it came out?
Cue "do you want Abramsverse? Because that's how you get Abramsverse" jokes? :P
I thought it was the Kelvinverse.... are we changing terms now?
I think Abramsverse came first. If anything it changed *TO* Kelvinverse
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#584930
Early 2009: Neroverse or Abramsverse

Mid-2009: The Alternate Reality (standardized by Memory Alpha, archived here at Memory Prime)

2016: Kelvin Timeline (announced officially by Paramount just before Beyond and gradually adopted by Memory Alpha).

2017+: "Kelvinverse" has become a common corruption.

EDIT:
jjh wrote:How'd it work out for all the Loud TOS Loyalists who hated everything about TNG when it came out?
To be fair, TNG became very popular. None of the new shows have done so.

While Paramount holds its audience numbers absurdly close to the chest, it's possible to use the TVTime weekly charts + data from other services to draw inferences. In terms of raw viewership, it is very unlikely that any episode of nuTrek has been seen by as many people as saw "Babel One," the lowest-rated episode of Prime Trek in history. They may well be profitable, since each nuTrek show is paid for by subscribers, but they are not popular, and can never hope to enjoy a similar cultural impact in their present configuration.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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Community Contributor
#584943
jjh wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:19 pm Wait, are we talking about popularity?
You were talking about what happened to TOS loyalists. They were loud, but were eventually drowned out by the sheer number of other fans.

We are now 5 years into the Discovery Era, and the detractors are still substantially louder than the supporters. By contrast, in Season 5 of the TNG era, the TOS loyalists had already been completely silenced by sheer overwhelming force of numbers. TOS loyalists still existed, but, even by 1992, TNG was a huge cultural phenomenon (not just in fandom, but everywhere), and TOS loyalists were regarded as a peculiar sort of luddite well outside mainstream fandom. That... just hasn't been the case with nuTrek.

IDIC, of course. Anyone who enjoys all the new stuff -- and I know there are many such people, including in this community--should continue enjoying it. It doesn't have to be popular to be somebody's cup of tea. (I'm an ENT fan! I'd be quite the hypocrite if I equated popularity and quality!) And, of course, whether it's good or bad, whatever CBS produces and calls Star Trek is always going to be Star Trek, at least until the copyright expires. I've already said that, if the CC ever somehow got permission to produce cards from nuTrek, it should do so, even though I hate a lot of it, so I'm truly not here to spoil anybody's fun.

I just don't think we should expect nuTrek's detractors to end up marginalized by history the way TNG's detractors were.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#584946
By season 5 of TNG, they had basically united the tribes.

Unification wasn't just an Episode name. It was much more than that.

Reading about the Announcement of Spock appearing in TNG at a Convention and the subsequent fan reaction in Nimoy's I Am Spock brought a literal tear to my eye.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#584950
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:34 pm We are now 5 years into the Discovery Era, and the detractors are still substantially louder than the supporters.
The click-based internet-consuming economy drives media content in a more alarmist and headline grabbing direction. Thus detractors tend to get amplified to a much greater degree than do supporters, even when there are fewer detractors than supporters. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot I don't personally like about Discovery-era Trek. But I recognize that just because not all of Discovery-era Trek is aimed at me doesn't make it bad. Lower Decks is probably my least favorite Trek in all of Trek-dom, but I know other people like it so I can tolerate its existence (partly by just not watching it myself).
 
By phaserihardlyknowher (Ben Daeuber)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#584983
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:24 pm To be fair, TNG became very popular. None of the new shows have done so.

While Paramount holds its audience numbers absurdly close to the chest, it's possible to use the TVTime weekly charts + data from other services to draw inferences. In terms of raw viewership, it is very unlikely that any episode of nuTrek has been seen by as many people as saw "Babel One," the lowest-rated episode of Prime Trek in history. They may well be profitable, since each nuTrek show is paid for by subscribers, but they are not popular, and can never hope to enjoy a similar cultural impact in their present configuration.
To be fair, nothing will ever again be as popular because that just doesn't happen anymore. To give an idea, the estimated number of viewers of the final episode of TNG were 30 million (according to wikipedia). Compare that to 19 million for the final episode of Game of Thrones, arguably one of the biggest phenomenon in TV for a decade. Obviously, we can only guess, but I think it's unfair to compare broadcast TV from 1990 to streaming today, there's just so many more options that nothing will ever reach those heights again, in viewership or cultural impact.
Armus wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:25 am But TOS Battle Feds made me actively cringe. :x If there's one thing TOS Feds DONT need it's to give them tools for the one thing they aren't already good - and in many cases the best - at.

In fact I think we can go quite a long time - maybe even the far distant Discovery future - without giving TOS Feds *any* more help and they'll still be tier one with what they already have.
Just think of all the matching commanders for U.S.S. Discovery. It was like they wrote the show for ready room door.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#584996
Faithful Reader wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:45 pm
enabrantain wrote:I'd hate to see the time we have left wasted on such weak content.
You realize we've made cards based on Shades of Gray, right? Plus, a good portion of the most recent set is from one of the most derided works of the franchise.

It's not as much the content of the episode as it's the quality of the cards.
Oh good, then there's no point in continuing this discussion. There's plenty of content left in the pre-Jar-Jar Abrams Trek so all CC has to do is to continue to make quality cards, which they have shown us in the past they are quite capable of doing.
In any case, time for a reality check (pun intended), I doubt the CC will get permission to make cards for the newer franchises anyways, and the very act of asking for it could be the end of this site. CBS could shut this down whenever they want, even just for spite's sake. So, unless they have a plan to get around that, it doesn't matter what any of us think.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#584999
enabrantain wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:27 pm
Faithful Reader wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:45 pm
enabrantain wrote:I'd hate to see the time we have left wasted on such weak content.
You realize we've made cards based on Shades of Gray, right? Plus, a good portion of the most recent set is from one of the most derided works of the franchise.

It's not as much the content of the episode as it's the quality of the cards.
Oh good, then there's no point in continuing this discussion. There's plenty of content left in the pre-Jar-Jar Abrams Trek so all CC has to do is to continue to make quality cards, which they have shown us in the past they are quite capable of doing.
In any case, time for a reality check (pun intended), I doubt the CC will get permission to make cards for the newer franchises anyways, and the very act of asking for it could be the end of this site. CBS could shut this down whenever they want, even just for spite's sake. So, unless they have a plan to get around that, it doesn't matter what any of us think.
Well, there's still this...
Armus wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:41 am Animated Series first.

Too much good (and fun!) content to have been ignored by the game for almost 30 years.
We've been putting TAS images on Tribbles cards for over a decade and we're still here. So regardless of the merits, it's more realistically in play than the rest of this nonsense...
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#585017
phaserihardlyknowher wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:25 pm
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:24 pm To be fair, TNG became very popular. None of the new shows have done so.

While Paramount holds its audience numbers absurdly close to the chest, it's possible to use the TVTime weekly charts + data from other services to draw inferences. In terms of raw viewership, it is very unlikely that any episode of nuTrek has been seen by as many people as saw "Babel One," the lowest-rated episode of Prime Trek in history. They may well be profitable, since each nuTrek show is paid for by subscribers, but they are not popular, and can never hope to enjoy a similar cultural impact in their present configuration.
To be fair, nothing will ever again be as popular because that just doesn't happen anymore. To give an idea, the estimated number of viewers of the final episode of TNG were 30 million (according to wikipedia). Compare that to 19 million for the final episode of Game of Thrones, arguably one of the biggest phenomenon in TV for a decade. Obviously, we can only guess, but I think it's unfair to compare broadcast TV from 1990 to streaming today, there's just so many more options that nothing will ever reach those heights again, in viewership or cultural impact.
It's also worth remembering that broadcast TV ratngs come from estimates made by one company.

Until 2007 Nielsen used 5,000 households to estimate ratings. 5,000 is the source they estimated millions off of.

And there was always a suspicion that genre shows were underrepresented.

I have my issues with Netflix being too quick to cancel shows before they gain an audience, etc. But I can at least accept that they (and other streamers) have a better grasp of the real numbers.
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