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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#584492
Inspired in part by rules that can die in a fire, and some custom stuff I was working on personally.

But the thought came up - what would break if, say, Sisters of Duras and their Ship were BOTH [1E-Rom] [Kli] at all times, instead of switching between?

1 - youwould need to clarify that what ever was less restrictive would apply. So KLN attack restrictions, FED/NA can work with anyone, etc...

Any weird corner cases I'm missing?
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
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Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#584494
Will Riker, Tallera, and others similarly worded could not work with any [Fed] / [NA] including even each other, which weakens Mercenary Raiders.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#584495
Heh heh. Rules discusses a lot of things, and one of the things we discussed once a few years ago was this very idea. Obviously we didn't decide to do it, because it's been years and multi-affiliation rules are still what they've always been, but I have some useful notes from the time.

First, if you decided to do this, this is the rule you'd want:
multi-affiliation cards
Multi-affiliation cards have two or more affiliation icons. Their skills and other features may differ according to their current affiliation "mode." When not in play, mMulti-affiliation cards count as all their given affiliations (for cards like Diplomatic Contact, and concepts like compatibility). Declare the affiliation of a multi-affiliation card when it enters play (personnel or ship affiliation must be compatible with the facility and/or crew where it reports or is earned; an outpost's affiliation must match an affiliation icon on the mission). A multi-affiliation card matches all its affiliations, and is compatible with cards that share any of its affiliations.

A multi-affiliation card (including a dual-personnel card) in play may use only one affiliation at a time, but you may change its affiliation at any time (between other game actions), any number of times during the course of the game. For example, Lursa on the Sisters of Duras cannot be [Kli] while B'Etor is [Rom]; if Major Rakal encounters Zaldan while in [Fed] mode, she cannot change to [Rom] mode during the mission attempt.

When a multi-affiliation personnel is aboard your ship or facility, you may not change the affiliation of either the Personnel card or the ship/facility if it would cause that personnel to be placed under house arrest. You must remove the personnel from the ship/facility before changing its affiliation. You may not simultaneously change the affiliations of one or more Personnel cards, ships, and/or facilities; each change is a separate game action. Thus, if the Sisters of Duras are aboard the Cha'Joh, both in Romulan mode, you may not change either the Sisters of Duras or the Cha'Joh to Klingon mode without removing the Sisters first.

If a multi-affiliation personnel, whose features are dependent on their affiliation mode, is assimilated or made Non-Aligned (e.g., by Memory Wipe), they may still switch "modes" as a game action. If a card gains an affiliation (without losing its prior affiliations), it functions as a multi-affiliation card including the new affiliation.

In the Voyager and later expansion sets, dual-affiliation cards are printed with two different border colors, one for each affiliation. The affiliation icon matching the border color appears on the left in each case. A card with one border color is a copy of the same card title with the other border color, and they have identical gameplay.

If a report or download requires a personnel's affiliation to match a ship or facility, you must report or download the personnel in matching affiliation mode (without creating a house arrest situation). For example, to use Dominion War Efforts to download Dar without discarding Assign Support Personnel [link to card], you must download him in [Dom] mode to a [Dom] ship or facility. If you download him in [Hir] mode to a [Hir] ship or facility, you must discard Assign Support Personnel.

When a multi-affiliation personnel's affiliation becomes something else (e.g. due to Memory Wipe), all their affiliations are changed to the new affiliation. See become. For personnel who derive some skills directly from their affiliation(s), like Major Rakal and Stefan de Seve, they lose those skills when they change their affiliation.
This rule avoids (for example) the Mercenary Raiders problem that profscott noted, and generally keeps decks from running into weird compatibility problems.

Some Implications, Though:

* Major Rakal and Stefan deSeve, under this proposal, would have all their special skills at once. That's legally fine, but a little odd.

* An Away Team consisting of Overseer Odo, Curzon Odo, and Ilon Tandro could attempt a mission together, which is odd.

* Homeworlds would be much more attemptable without requiring HQ: Secure Homeworld or Espionage -- you'd just need a dual-affiliation personnel who has the right attemptability icon.

* Attack restrictions would be quite a bit stricter. (A player who really doesn't want to get attacked could deliberately stock duals from MANY different affiliations in order to prevent most opponents from targeting at all.) A [Kli] / [Fed] personnel would have [Fed] attack restrictions.

* War Council would take a hit because they'll no longer be able to supplement with duals.

* Dominion War Efforts: under this proposal, it would be possible to use DWE with a [Hir] [Holo] [1E-DQ] deck.

* Elim Garak (Dogs of War) could no longer be included in an Alpha Quadrant Alliance deck (we checked with Design at the time to make sure this would be okay).

Otherwise, yeah, stuff like the Sisters of Duras and their ship would get smoother, and obviously there would be a HUGE simplification in terms of rules number and complexity.
#584551
@boromirofborg Great minds think alike. I've had the following in draft form on my computer for a while. I figured I would share it. The crux of the proposal is to remove basic affiliation attack restrictions; that is, most everyone is Klingon! I believe the frequency that normal attack restrictions come into play is small; and the frequency they come into play in a positive light is even smaller. They are best done away with. After that, the details of how multi-affiliation cards work are fairly straight-forward after shoehorning existing text to work the way it should. Enjoy!



MULTI-AFFILIATION CARDS (6.3.3)

A few cards have more than one affiliation icon. For example, The Emissary has both the [Baj] and [Fed] affiliation icons. He is compatible with both [Baj] cards and [Fed] cards simultaneously. You do not need to choose nor declare which affiliation they are. However, a multi-affiliation card does not provide a "treaty" for your other cards; all other personnel present (and the ship or facility they are aboard) must be still pairwise compatible with each other.

A multi-affiliation cards (unless [Bor]) are not subject to attack restrictions.

sidebar:

If a single-affiliation personnel gains a new affiliation without losing his or her original affiliation, it functions as a multi-affiliation card.

A few select multi-affiliation personnel have features that are dependent on their "affiliation mode" (such as Major Rakal); they gain those features if they could operate as that affiliation alone. They lose these features if they lose that affiliation (e.g. Memory Wipe or they are assimilated). It is possible such a personnel could gain multiple sets of features (if, for example, all other personnel present are [NA])

A card that "does not work with" affiliation(s) means that card cannot consider those affiliation(s) on other cards to determine compatibility. For example, Lore who is [NA] but "does not work with [Fed]" is still compatible with a [Fed][Kli] personnel.

As always, a card is a copy of another if both have the same title and gametext. Prints of the same card with different affiliation border colors, such as Prot and Prot (Identity Crisis) are copies.


INITIATING A BATTLE (7.4.1)

...

Most affiliations have no attack restrictions. Two affiliations have attack restrictions.

[Fed] may initiate battle only against [Bor]. Otherwise, [Fed] may battle only during counter-attack, or when permitted or required by a card.

[Bor] may never initiate battle unless permitted or required to by a card, usually an objective, (such as Eliminate Starship or Conundrum), or as a counter-attack (see After the Battle).

Multi-affiliation cards (unless [Bor]) are not subject to attack restrictions.

sidebar
A "mixed" force is subject to all the attack restrictions of its members. However, multi-affiliation cards have no attack restrictions. For example, your crew or away team containing a [Fed] personnel (who is only [Fed]) is subject to the [Fed] attack restrictions.

If a card specifically allows you to attack a specific affiliation (or faction), then you may attack any forces that include that affiliation (or faction), even if other cards are working with them. For example, Admiral Leyton, who allows [Fed] present to attack [Dom], implicitly allows you to attack a mixed [Dom]/[Kaz] force as well.

When a card, such as Emblem of the Empire, removes affiliation attack restrictions from a group of cards, they may attack any affiliation, including their own. If cards from that group mix with other cards whose affiliation attack restrictions have not been removed, the entire force is subject to the restrictions of the second group.

A card that allows a specific attack (e.g., Captain Kirk may initiate battle against non-[Fed]) does not permanently or universally remove affiliation attack restrictions.

Older rules gave most affiliations the attack restriction that they cannot initiate battle against their own affiliation; this is no longer the case.
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#584556
HoodieDM wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:03 pm The house arrest rules is what makes this too difficult.

Plus how would something like Klaestron Outpost report anything?
I think the crux is that by being both, the card itself would be compatible with either.

So Kalestron Outpostis both Car/Fed.

i report Dukat to it. Because the outpost is [Car] , there's no problem.

I want to report Jadzia. Because I have no treaty, and Dukat is there, I cannot report her. If I move Dukat, then I can report her to the Outpost, becasue both she and the outpost are [Fed].
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#584578
Back when I was playing with my cousins on grandma's floor we used a house rule that multi affiliation cards are treaties for their affiliations In their crew or Away Team. Mind you, we were also playing with rules that facilities were locations with a range of 1, and had a set of house rules which allowed Star Wars cards to be used as well. Using numbers from the Star Wars U.S.S. Enterprise and Worf and the Star Trek Boba Fett and Vader dream cards that Inquest printed.
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