This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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 - Delta Quadrant
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#584650
Hidiho, after all this new stuff and discussion on Dual-personnel I am not sure anymore... Does RttP add 2 Shaka icons on Dual-personnel?
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By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
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2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#584654
What's RttP? A full name and card tag would be helpful here.
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First Edition Creative Manager
By KazonPADD (Paddy Tye)
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#584656
I’m assuming Release This Pain and [SKR] icons. I don’t think it does, but I suggest we get Rules (@BCSWowbagger ) to confirm.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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#584657
jadziadax8 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:04 am What's RttP? A full name and card tag would be helpful here.
I'm assuming it's Release This Pain since he's talking about SKR icons.

To answer the question, one SKR adds one icon to one personnel because that's what the card says it does. In the case of dual personnel, you'd still only add one SKR icon with RTP but it would affect both personnel and they'd be able to mix with your other SKR personnel.

However, there's nothing stopping you from playing a second RTP on a dual personnel to add the second SKR icon.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
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2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#584658
KazonPADD wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:24 am I’m assuming Release This Pain and [SKR] icons. I don’t think it does, but I suggest we get Rules (@BCSWowbagger ) to confirm.
Oh. When he said Shaka, it made me wonder if there was an obscure icon involving Tamarians developed before I came back to 1E that I hadn't heard about.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
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1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#584660
Shaka /= Sha Ka
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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#584675
The current rule is that any "change in status or position" applies to both personnel. (See Rulebook 6.3.4: Dual-Personnel Cards.)

So I think this is the current correct answer: if you play RtP on Ah-Kel (from Ah-Kel and Ro-Kel), then Ah-Kel loses all Treachery, gains [SKR], and becomes compatible with your cards that have [SKR]. Ro-Kel does not lose Treachery (not a change of status), does not gain [SKR] (also not a status change), but does become compatible with all your [SKR] cards (that IS a change of status). This is true of both pre-errata and post-errata RtP.

(IOW, Armus is correct.)

In most cases, I don't think this matters, since [SKR]-less Ro-Kel is still going to be compatible with all your Sybok people. So you can get away with just playing one RTP.

But if you want to score Ro-Kel at Sha Ka Ree, or if you want two dual-personnel cards to work together under RTP... you're gonna have to play two.

(This answer also generally applies to the pre-Remastered version of RtP. Only the personnel targeted is "considered to have Sybok in lore".)

(The rule used to be simpler, but then some upstart jerk who wasn't even volunteering yet just had to ask whether the Sons of Mogh gain 2 MEDICAL from a Medical Kit or just 1 MEDICAL. The Rules Committee at the time revised it to prevent that, and [SKR] is the same deal.)

Sometimes, people hear that the Rules Committee is considering changes to the dual-personnel rules (which is true; it's something we're looking at), and they become frustrated. They've played with the current dual-personnel rules for 20 years, they think they understand those rules pretty well, they're comfortable, and why mess with something that works well for most players? Why should Rules even consider changing something that's held up for decades? This is a very reasonable instinct! Rules should not mess with solid, dependable rules just for the sake of messing with them, or cause disruption for the sake of some very minor bit of streamlining.

However, weird edge cases like this with Release This Pain (and ambiguities like "what counts as a change of status??") are why we are looking into it anyway.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
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#584698
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:17 pm
(IOW, Armus is correct.)
That's all you had to say, my dude. 8)
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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#584700
Armus wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:36 pm
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:17 pm
(IOW, Armus is correct.)
That's all you had to say, my dude. 8)
I gotta rep to maintain.

Someday, this forum will allow us to look at all users' total word counts, and I'm gonna WIN.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
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Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#584701
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:17 pm
(IOW, Armus is correct.)
@Armus, now that is worthy of adding to your signature!
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